Towing a 911, four down

[tevake]

Need some input from the brain trust here.

I'm getting close now to having all the gear to hookup the SC to the back of my motorhome to do some cruising this summer.
All the searches here have turned up conflicting info about whether the 911 can be pulled distances on its own wheels without damage to the trans.

Most suggestions are, get a trailer to tow it on. But my Moho is somewhat a vintage unit also and. Has limited tow capacity. So adding the weight of a trailer is a stretch. Not to mention the extra cost and storage for the trailer.

So towing on it own wheels is the best fit in my case.

There are pics to be found archived here of 911s being towed. But also comments about the trans not being properly lubricated if towed long distances.

So my question is, can a. 1980 911 be towed distances on it own wheels with out damage.
My car is a driver that I enjoy using, so I'm willing to add the miles while towing to have it to explore with once in new areas. Possible first destination is Colo. so lots of mountain roads to explore there.

Thanks. Richard

The unit in question

[nota]

tow dolly backwards so you are not spinning the trans
tie down the steering

[JJ 911SC]

You need something like that; tow dolly backwards + the other contraption under the front wheel.

[Laneco]

I'm always curious as to why it is so hard on a MANUAL transmission to be towed versus being driven.... I mean, a 911 transmission held up for 24 hour racing, off-road rally's, decades of spirited driving but what - it turns to ash if you tow the car? Really? Automatic - usually not a good thing, but a manual is another story. I think every Suzuki Samurai/Geo Tracker around here with a manual transmission has seen 100,000 miles behind a motorhome. I used to think that they just threw one of these in the package deal when you bought a big motor home.

Most of the posters you find who poo-poo towing a manual transmission 911 are worrying about the front being lifted on the dolly and the rear on the ground. Pretty tight clearance for the exhaust with the nose up and POSSIBLY if towed a tremendous distance, you could have an oiling problem as the transmission is nose up.

This is a better question for the tech section, though some posters are in both areas.

Personally, if I were taking that car a long distance, I would tow it on a small trailer, all four wheels on the trailer, just to keep it very nice. There would be no way on the planet that I would lift the rear end with the truck and put a dolly under the front wheels unless I was using a professional grade tow-truck and accompanying equipment. I would add a better hitch to the motor home and use a tandem axle trailer which will give you a light tongue weight. Should be just fine.

*edit* - heck what am I saying? I would make my husband drive the motor home and I would drive the 911!!! SOLVED!

angela

[tevake]

I was about to reply to Nota, that the dolly would be tough to back onto without hitting the engine on the dolly. Plus the clearance of the lip spoiler would drag on any bump.

Then there is the double dolly. Guess I would have bring a floor jack to get on and off the second dolly. Or have a tow truck follow with the 911 in tow.

Really what I am asking is if the trans will lubricate it's self while towing?

I guess I should take this over to the tech forum. But I hang more here and think there is the knowledge here to solve this question.

Thanks Richard

[tevake]

Yep I am well onto the path to towing the car. All ready got a nice tow bar, have installed receivers onto the car, got a brake buddy to stop the car while towing.
Just need to fab brackets for the front of the bumper to hook the tow bar to.
That's the last piece of the puzzle.

Then I came across an old post here stating that if the trans is in neutral the drive gears are not turning so no oiling will happen to parts of the trans.
That is what has prompted this thread.

So that is the focus here, will the 911 trans be well lubricated if towed for long distances.

Angela, you are right in your last comment about driving in tandem , but I am solo now so want to do it myself.
And the hitch might require some beefing up to tow more weight, and the engine too for that extra 1,500 pounds. It's slow enough all ready climbing mountains .

Sorry if my response to Nota and JJ 911 was a bit tart. I do appreciate the input, it was just a little off target.


Cheers Richard

[john70t]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

I like it, except those small dolly wheels might be more susceptible to dog-legging or potholes over long trips.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by tevake

... Sorry if my response to Nota and JJ 911 was a bit tart. I do appreciate the input, it was just a little off target...

As long as you were thinking lemons, no problemo

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by tevake

Then I came across an old post here stating that if the trans is in neutral the drive gears are not turning so no oiling will happen to parts of the trans.
That is what has prompted this thread.

It will be interesting to see responses from 911 experts here. There are bearings that are used more when towing in neutral, but in most transmissions the oil is sloshed around enough to keep them lubricated. I don't know if a 911 is different somehow, or if this is another "what kind of oil should I use?" question.

[ckelly78z]

I have a 2 wheeled car dolly that I use quite a bit towing cars or trucks (mine is the wide version). The best way for the tail to wag the dog, so to speak, is to tow something with the heavy end down on the pavement and the lightweight end up on the dolly.

I tried towing a Datsun 280ZXT with the rear end up on the dolly mainly because the non-running car was parked with it's nose up to a building. Needless to say about 5 miles down the road, I pulled into a truckstop and turned the car around on the dolly. For 5 miles it had swayed back and forth, and almost made the tow vehicle wipe out from the swinging and swaying.

A porsche 911 would be better with the heavy rearend up on the dolly, and the front tires on the pavement with the steering locked and in gear.

[Rot 911]

Do you really need a trailer to tow a 911?

Towing a 911 behind a Motorhome

towing

[DaveE]

My bigger worry would be all the crap getting swept into the front end and windshield of the 911 being at ground level so close to the wake of the RV

[vonsmog]

You can flat tow with no issues if you drop the half shafts at the wheel side. You would just have to hook them back up every time you wanted to drive the 911. OK if its a long haul to get the car somewhere and being there for a long time. Say for the winter in FL.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by DaveE

My bigger worry would be all the crap getting swept into the front end and windshield of the 911 being at ground level so close to the wake of the RV

+1
This just seems like a bad idea all the way around, but it's not my car to trash. I always looked land dingies as throw away vehicles, because they're going to get trashed.

[tevake]

This was the comment that has caused me concern since coming across it a couple of weeks ago.
Any ideas how accurate this is?

"For short distances it is probably OK.

Longer distances...?
Seems it would increase wear on the needle bearings that reside between the gears and the main shaft.
The gears on the mainshaft are engaged with the gears on the layshaft all the time. The gearset on the mainshaft are on needle bearings and freewheel all the time unless a gear is selected, then it is locked to the mainshaft.
When the engine is not running and the clutch is out, then obviously the input shaft to the transmission, and layshaft/mainshaft gearsets are stationary.
But if the car is rolling with the CV joints attached and the transmission in nuetral then the differential and outputshaft or mainshaft of the transmission are turning... and the the mainshaft will be spinning inside of the stationary gearset.
The gears being stationary will also not be splashing, swirling gearbox oil around inside the case to keep the needle bearings freshly lubricated.

This may not be much of an issue but for long distances I wouldn't do it.
Just have someone drive the car there or disconnect the CV joints from the transaxle while towing.

If you've ever taken apart a manual transmission then you know what I'm talking about."

I have helped take apart a transmission from. 911. But my roll as helper did not bring me complete understanding of the inner workings of the thing.

I would rather discuss this here and become more informed, than go ahead and start towing and find out the hard way.
I would rather resell all the gear that I've bought to rig for towing than cause big problems.
I'm located in northern AZ. Right now and see countless RVs. Rolling by towing cars all the time. It really makes me realize how much it would add to upcoming trips to be able to safely tow the 911 along.

Cheers Richard

[wdfifteen]

Again, I'm not a 911 expert, but post #15 is true for front engined cars. The gears that he calls the layshaft ("countershaft" in American) are in the bottom of the transmission where the oil is. These gears are locked to the input shaft from the clutch. If the engine isn't turning, these gears aren't turning. Under normal operation the oil is tossed around in the case by these gears. If engine isn't turning this shaft it doesn't toss lube up to the bearings on the mainshaft. There isn't much of a load on them under towing conditions, so they don't need much oil and running them without the lubricant bath for a while won't hurt them. But go far enough for the lube to run out and the bearings run dry and trash your mainshaft.

[wdfifteen]

Found an image of a P-car transmission and it is upside down from a front engine car transmission. The shaft driven by the wheels when towing is in the bottom of the transmission where the oil is.It appears that the 4th speed and 3rd speed gears turn whenever the wheels turn and throw oil around inside the transmission case, so the discussion above doesn't apply.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

[tevake]

Thanks WDfifteen for digging up that pic of the trans, if I'm understanding the pic correctly it seems it would do well in oiling itself while towing. Or is that wishful thinking on my part?

Ha ha Shaun, don't know why I didn't think of that, perfect I can enjoy driving the SC and still have the coach to live in while traveling.

Cheers Richard

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by tevake

Thanks WDfifteen for digging up that pic of the trans, if I'm understanding the pic correctly it seems it would do well in oiling itself while towing. Or is that wishful thinking on my part?

Ha ha Shaun, don't know why I didn't think of that, perfect I can enjoy driving the SC and still have the coach to live in while traveling.

Cheers Richard

I think it would lubricate itself just fine.