Sweden Did It Wrong

[sugarwood]

https://mirror.fro.wtf/mirror.php?file=l7koko.mp4

I'm just gonna sit my ass in the drive-thru and pout like an 8 year old not getting their way. Anyone who blocks my drive thru is either going to get a trespass charge or their vehicle towed at their own expense.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

https://mirror.fro.wtf/mirror.php?file=l7koko.mp4

I'm just gonna sit my ass in the drive-thru and pout like an 8 year old not getting their way. Anyone who blocks my drive thru is either going to get a trespass charge or their vehicle towed at their own expense.

What does that have to do with Sweden?

[sugarwood]

When making a point about masks is more important than being with your dying mother. And you bring your kids to this ****?! These people are honestly the worst. Woman screeching in the background like a banshee is the definition of unhinged. If her mother truly has a brain-tumour as she claims, she is already immuno-compromised; the last thing she needs now is an infection.

That dip**** really just swished that mace like it was mouthwash. If only he'd worn a mask. Not like he can taste anything with that covid mouth. Bro your sense of taste is gone... You should go get tested...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbVLTE_SOz8

[Sooner or later]

another video that has nothing to do with Sweden.

[Jeff Higgins]

Cross posted from PARF:

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/sweden/

Israel is about 78% vaccinated, Sweden about 62%. Israel is reporting 782 infections per 100k people, Sweden is reporting 66 infections per 100k.

[MikeSid]

Both Israel and Sweden have roughly 10M people.
In Sweden, those people have 173K square miles to occupy.
In Israel, those people have to fit in about 8K square miles.

Notwithstanding the simple geographical and population differences, there are huge cultural differences that make comparing the two countries on this particular issue, virtually meaningless.

All that chart illustrates, is that the mask mandate in Israel did not correlate with a reduction in cases.

[Tobra]

Neither did vaccination

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by MikeSid

Both Israel and Sweden have roughly 10M people.
In Sweden, those people have 173K square miles to occupy.
In Israel, those people have to fit in about 8K square miles.

Notwithstanding the simple geographical and population differences, there are huge cultural differences that make comparing the two countries on this particular issue, virtually meaningless.

All that chart illustrates, is that the mask mandate in Israel did not correlate with a reduction in cases.

You imply that Swedes are evenly spread out across their available land. Nothing could be further from the truth. Much of it is completely unoccupied, with the majority of their population living in densely populated urban areas. Much like other "developed" nations. Much like Israel. So, sorry, but that argument just doesn't wash.

Cultural differences? Yes - Sweden has suffered a massive influx of Muslim refugees from African and Middle Easter schittholes. Notoriously uneducated, non compliant, and unvaccinated. Israel, in contrast, has one of the most homogeneous populations on the planet (along with Japan). If anything, the "cultural differences" strongly favor Israel in this equation.

[MikeSid]

You inferred. I did not imply.
I will posit that the population density is far greater in Israel across the entire country. Sweden may have areas of density, and then areas of vacancy. Tell me areas of vacancy between areas of density doesn't matter in a pandemic. If people were trees, all of Israel would be on fire. Sweden would have a much easier time putting out the hot spots.

For cultural differences, see Livi's comments on this subject early on. I'm not talking about educational or economic demographics. I'm talking about the way people interact with each other socially in Sweden v. Israel. Something as simple as the differences in the perception of what constitutes "personal space".

My only point, really, is that the chart you posted doesn't really add to the discussion. It is illustrative of 3 points, masks, cases, and timing. There could be a thousand different reasons for the peaks and valleys.

Case in point, Israel reached 60% vaccination in April 2021, right about where the chart flattens. Once could say that vaccines had a positive effect on case counts. One could also say, if that were the case, the vaccine is only good for about 4 months. Maybe that is the reality and we're just on the edge of learning that. Maybe it was the weather.

The only reason I chose to comment (and if you look at my stats, you'll see my comments are rare in the last 20 years) is a growing frustration with isolated data being posted on this subject to advance a position when I'm certain the person doing so (not just you Jeff) is fully aware their data is not conclusive of their point.

I also thought this thread was effectively put to bed on about page 3 when Sweden was (jokingly) compared to Wyoming - illustrating that comparing Sweden to another country to establish any sort of point is a fools errand.

[Jeff Higgins]

Mike, we are far more in agreement than is apparent from my post. If you were to go back and read through some of my earlier comments on this situation, that would become quite apparent. Since there is no way I would expect anyone to waste their time in such a manner, I'll quickly summarize.

My position has been that our efforts - mankind's as a whole - have been largely futile. Mostly for naught. Proponents of one approach over another will jump with glee and exclaim they were "right" - at the right point in time. Just about as soon as they have settled back down into their easy chair, smug in the notion that they were "right", their favorite example population becomes the next virus "hotspot" and their numbers skyrocket.

"Sweden did it wrong!!" "Israel did it right!!!" We have heard both, with snapshots in time to support those arguments. I have maintained that we will not know for at least a decade. Country to country, state to state, we have seen wildly varying results. But only, I believe, because the sample time is still far too short. I bet that, normalized over many more years, we all come out of this about the same. COVID is going to have its way with us. Haughty, arrogant man thinks he can fight back and win. Oh, we will declare "victory" in the end, after it has run its course, but IT will decide when it is done with us, and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it.

[Tervuren]

Pretty much sums it up.

There are things that can be done wrong, like exposure of the vunrable by sending CV19 patients to assisted living facilities.(Which Sweden did for a week or two?).

However, aside from forced instances of the wrong thing there is little governments can do other than boost supply of needed materials.
Everything else is up to us, the conditio we are in, where we go, how we take care of ourselves.

[manbridge 74]

How dare anyone question the consensus/herd think! Why, it’s pure science devoid of pesky politics.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by RSBob

...what is important is what an utter failure there approach turned out to be documented in many publications but summarized nicely here: ...

My prediction on the Did it Right thread was that their approach was doomed to failure, and unfortunately it came true. Teyhass and Floriduh went down nearly identical rabbit holes, through denial, thanks to their stellar leaders.

Wrong.

[red 928]

Originally Posted by RSBob

Don’t remember the name of the member who conjectured about the brilliance of Sweden’s approach to snuffing out CV19 by using herd immunity. Their name is not important, but what is important is what an utter failure there approach turned out to be documented in many publications but summarized nicely here: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity

Here is a cut and paste of their accelerating infection and death curve. The red bar is deaths and the orange are infected people from Wikipedia



My prediction on the Did it Right thread was that their approach was doomed to failure, and unfortunately it came true. Teyhass and Floriduh went down nearly identical rabbit holes, through denial, thanks to their stellar leaders.

so wrong on every count

https://unherd.com/2021/11/how-sweden-swerved-covid-disaster/

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/1106301-how-sweden-swerved-covid-disaster.html

[dad911]

[island911]

^ Yes, but the US got to enjoy massive hysteria, lock-downs, emergency powers for politicians, and literally tons of mask litter and people loosing their jobs.

Winning! /Sheen

[Sooner or later]

The latest unemployment rate that I have seen from Sweden was only 8.2%.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

The latest unemployment rate that I have seen from Sweden was only 8.2%.

That checks out



The ROW shutting down will have an affect.

[Sooner or later]

What does the 5 year chart look like for both Sweden and the US?

[dad911]

Seems to me neither politics or vaccinations has flattened the curve.......

Note - I added the red line.