Noob Questions About Boats

[MBAtarga]

The other saying is - if it floats, flys, or fuchs - rent it!

[JeremyD]

I have around 40 years of experience boating - sailboats / motorboats / fishing boats.

For a dual engine 30 ft boat = figure around 10% of the purchase price per year in maintenance - may be higher for a boat kept in the water - maybe a little less for an outboard boat kept on a trailer.

Once you get into older boats - the maintenance increases substantially. Remember that most marinas charge by the foot. Need your bottom scrubbed - yep by the foot. Haul it? yep charge by the foot. If you can do your own maintenance then you can significantly lower some of these charges - but also remember that some maintenance - you have to be a 100 lb contortionist to get to some of the items on the boats - good times.

I was a DE instructor for years - and I always used to say that boat ownership makes Porsche ownership seem reasonable (even with DE expenses). Hear it's even worse with Airplanes.

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

I have around 40 years of experience boating - sailboats / motorboats / fishing boats.

For a dual engine 30 ft boat = figure around 10% of the purchase price per year in maintenance - may be higher for a boat kept in the water - maybe a little less for an outboard boat kept on a trailer.

Once you get into older boats - the maintenance increases substantially. Remember that most marinas charge by the foot. Need your bottom scrubbed - yep by the foot. Haul it? yep charge by the foot. If you can do your own maintenance then you can significantly lower some of these charges - but also remember that some maintenance - you have to be a 100 lb contortionist to get to some of the items on the boats - good times.

I was a DE instructor for years - and I always used to say that boat ownership makes Porsche ownership seem reasonable (even with DE expenses). Hear it's even worse with Airplanes.

I’m a former airplane owner, and new boat owner. Electronics are much less with the boat, and you can put them in yourself. Also you can do as much work on the boat yourself, no so with a plane. Not sure about part prices yet.

I’ve been quoted $750-$1000 per engine for the 100 hour service. I use to pay around $1200 for the annual inspection on my plane. The hourly rate for the mechanic is about the same.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I’m on boat #3 and 9 years of boating. If I had to sell everything the boat would be the last thing to go. Nothing has contributed to more fun family time than purchasing a boat. My teenagers are still excited to go boating with us, how many activities get your teenagers excited about hanging out with their parents? Single best purchase we’ve made, period.

I’m always amazed by the numbers thrown around when it comes to boat ownership. JYL, if I recall you’re a pretty handy guy, the vast majority of powerboats are some variety of Chevy pushrod V8, typically two when you get over 30’, and a geared outdrive. Controls are typically by cable, electrical system is very rudimentary 12V. As you get bigger most of them will have an inverter for 120VAC and a generator system, and you start adding more systems like A/C, refrigerator, etc. But none of it is earth shattering stuff. The really new boats are now starting to have a fiber-optic control backbone for things like the GPS to communicate with a fish finder, but that’s all electronic plug and play. The newer engines will have fuel injection and a fairly simple ECU by car standards, and the newer drives are going to an electronic shifter instead of cable. So long story short compared to a modern car they are a cakewalk. If you are willing to DIY, and yes that often requires some contortion, the parts are cheap and you will save yourself exponentially.

Boats aren’t cheap but they don’t have to be a money pit. My first two boats were used, I operated both for three years and made money on both. Buy in the fall/winter, sell in the spring, and be OCD about maintenance and upkeep and you’ll do fine. Most boats are abused, which makes it easy to sell a nice one but difficult to buy a nice one. For my current boat I went to MO, VA, TX, and eventually found a good one in MO at Lake of the Ozarks. Current boat is a Regal 2700 ES, I’d call it midrange in terms of quality but it gets the job done. We progressed from 17’ to 23’ to the current 29’ LOA, it’s definitely more difficult to dock and trailer but also much better in the chop and much more comfortable in terms of space. Currently at about 175 hrs and have only done regular maintenance. I changed props to improve hole shot ($1300), had to replace a bimini top that got shredded in the wind ($600), did a complete overhaul and upgrade of the audio system ($1500), installed an electric over hydraulic brake controller onto my trailer ($600), replaced the trailer bunk carpet ($200), and replaced the trailer tires ($800), I think that’s all the big stuff and most won’t be repeated for a long time.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Here’s my view today from Lake of the Ozarks. This is basically heaven to me.

A lot of your question is very regional in nature. I trailer my boat to regional inland lakes and rent a slip, much different from what you are wanting to do. One thing is universal though, boat people are friendly people and they are passionate about the hobby. Go to a local marina and chat the people up, most will be local and probably very experienced boaters. If you see people with boats that look interesting, ask them about it. Ask around people you know locally, you’ll probably get some offers to go out for a cruise.

I’ll close with how I opened, best money I’ve ever spent. In the next few years we are going to buy a house or condo here, eventually hope to make this part of our retirement. Eventually I’d like to move up in boat, some variety of hybrid bowrider in the low 30’ range with the ability to overnight. Formula has a few models I really like.

[jyl]

I was looking at weekend places on the water. Crazy expensive - in Oregon anyway. This is a state with a ton of rain but actually not that many scenic and populated lakes, compared to some of the states you guys live in. The Oregon coast is spectacular but anything beachfront is $$$$ and there’s a meaningful chance your $$$$ will be wiped out when the long overdue “Big One” comes. And I’m not convinced I won’t get bored if stuck in the same small town weekend after weekend.

Washington is, IMO, a much better state for waterside options. Puget Sound is an incredible place, there isn’t anything like it in Oregon or anywhere on the West Coast. It is pretty much heaven on earth as far as I’m concerned. From Portland, you can get to the southern end of Puget Sound in a little over 2 hours.

So the wife is asking whether we could start with a smaller boat moored on the Columbia River in Portland, figure out if we actually are boat people, then maybe move up to a larger boat that we’d keep in the Sound - Olympia WA, maybe. We’d stay living in Portland, where our friends and my job is, but with more “working from home” and the kids growing up, we’d gradually have flexibility to spend more time away.

It’s the seed of an idea.

[onewhippedpuppy]

We started with a small cheap boat for exactly that reason. It turned out to be a huge hit so we have continued to invest in the hobby. Maintenance will also be less on a smaller boat. Would there be an option to just trailer to a nearby lake or river for the short term? We keep our boat at a storage unit and tow it for each trip. It’s not ideal but way cheaper than a house or marina, especially as you are starting out. You can pretty easily tow up to about 25’ with a 1/2 ton pickup.

[jyl]

I don’t have a pickup . . . what will a 911 tow :-)

[onewhippedpuppy]

Lol, a boat equivalent to what Vash just bought.

Another option would be the dry storage places that keep your boat in a warehouse and just put it into a slip for you whenever you want it. Or just lease a slip with a lift at a marina.

[Cajundaddy]

You can buy a decent PU with the slip and maint fees for one year of leaving it in the water. Dry storage is another good option. Just call em the day before and they will have it in the water waiting for you.

[Wetwork]

Find your closest Coast Guard Auxiliary ASAP, they are a civilian volunteer organization that rides the shirt-tails of US Coast Guard. All can be answered, showed, taught, hands on. From boat handling to navigation to general seamanship. We worked with them most of my career. There is actually quite a bit to learn if you want to do things right the first time.

After twenty years active duty Coast Guard in the surf community, nothing gives me more of a chill than somebody asking about getting their first boat. Especially when its a large power boat. Especially with no experience. To me it's like buying a plane and trying to teach yourself to fly.

I launched on a first time boat owner who hit a documented, marked submerged jetty so hard it tore his transom off along with the inboard motor and the boat still skipped another 50 yards up onto the beach. I'm talking with basically the whole back half of his brand new boat missing....-WW

[jyl]

we have one!

Welcome to the Flotilla 7-6, District 13 Web Site

[Wetwork]

Originally Posted by jyl

we have one!

Welcome to the Flotilla 7-6, District 13 Web Site

I promise it would be worth the effort, besides trying to learn from books or the silly safe boating class you take online to get a safe boating card. I know time is money, and most of us would rather teach ourselves or from a buddies buddy. I'm just saying its better with boating to take a hands on class, than trying to learn from books or what-not.

With what I know now, I'd get a boat between 16ft and 19ft to start with. I'd want to learn to navigate if the fog rolls in, and the gps dies. I'd want back up power, both for electronics and main prop..so a trolling motor to get me home if I loose the engine. I'd want to know what Marine channels to listen to so I know if there is a actual freighter coming down on me in the dark. I'd want to know how to forecast bad weather so I don't get caught in it. I'd want to know how to drive my boat in bad weather if I do get caught. Boating is a blast and yes its pouring money into a hole in the water. Constant, constant preventative work and repairs... don't let the flooding put out the fires -WW
ps..I hope you noticed all the classes the Aux puts on, I myself back in the day, taught several when I had duty the same night as the classes.

[unclebilly]

I’ve seen this thread and been avoiding clicking on it. My family has always had several boats including those 2 ex navy seal offshore boats I posted about before.

When I was 14 my dad bought a 36.5’ commercial fishing boat and I was running it when I was 17 fishing for Salmon off the West / North coast of Vancouver Island. I had enough hours for my masters ticket before I was 20. We had a shrimp license too and I used to drag in Barclay Sound.

I nearly lost it all on July 1, 1995 about 5 miles off of Tofino. We had the boat leased out to some idiots who it turned out were using it for smuggling. One of the lower hull access panels was removed and the deck scuppers (drains) were plugged (bad idea). I unplugged the deck drains but didn’t realize the access panel was off. They sent up a helicopter from Neah Bay and 3 lifeboats from Tofino. We ended up saving the boat and the engine hydraulic’d just as the coast guard arrived. We got 3 Honda pumps on it and towed it back to Tofino. 2 weeks later, I was fishing again but my deckhand (And best friend) quit...

We had a few more commercial fishing boats and I helped my dad convert a 50’ wood seiner into a yacht that I was later married on.

Dad later tried to give me the yacht and I declined.

I vowed to never own a boat. The maintenance on the 50’ boat was $20k/year doing it yourself. Wooden boats are not like fiberglass boats and need constant upkeep. If you skip a year, the next year is way more. At the time, I just couldn’t make the numbers work. The post about a yearly haul out is incorrect, you need to do this yearly to at least change your zincs. You can save some money on a haul out if you can find a grid and you know what you are doing (I’ve seen some spectacular wrecks on the grid).

My brother insisted that I use his Honda aquatrax one summer and I decided then That maybe a small Jet boat wouldn’t be bad. I wanted a yamaha but got a great deal on a 14 hour seadoo speedster with the 215hp supercharged engine. It’s a bit small but a lot of fun. My 10 year old can handle it. The worst issue with this is that the steering in reverse is backwards to a rudder or sterndrive setup and I always have to think. The seadoo platform (now scarab) is great because these boats have a closed water cooling system. There is very little that can go wrong. It is a perfect lake boat albeit a bit wet in 3-4’ waves.

So don’t jump into a 35’ boat. Start with something smaller and work your way up. Make sure you have insurance on it. Buy some (like 4 per side) 2-3’ diameter bouys (we call them Scotsmen) to use as fenders. Find an empty dock somewhere and learn to dock it with a cross wind.

I’d like to do a round the world trip someday (and dads yacht would have done it) but likely never will.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I can also vouch for the robustness of a jet boat. We have friends who own a Yamaha AR210, despite their abuse it has held up really well. Jet boats are very mechanically simple and require very limited maintenance and no winterizing.

[unclebilly]

The Yamaha AR210 or similar will be my next boat. Very nice build quality, and no going for a swim to pull weeds out of the jet... the Yamaha is raw water cooled so does need to be drained.

[jyl]

Wife is fantasizing about eventually working up to something like a Grand Banks 36/42, just to give you an idea of where our head is at.

[RWebb]

how about a ferry boat, so you can load your new car on it?

[jyl]

You mean a ferry to carry my PU towing my trailer boat that carries my bicycle trailer with my kayak

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by jyl

Wife is fantasizing about eventually working up to something like a Grand Banks 36/42, just to give you an idea of where our head is at.

Great boat. Again, I am going to go against the grain. Your OP indicated you would be interested in living aboard to some degree. Weekends at first then longer as time, work, kids permit,

Boats are not condos and they also aren't campers as room is concerned. A 35 foot boat and a 35 camper do not have the same interior room, a boat is much smaller.

Trust me when I tell you a 35 foot boat is right on the edge of live aboard and that is for two people. And think long and hard before bringing small children or two guests for more than a boat ride. Anything smaller and you will hate it. More over your wife will hate it. The first time you go to the boat and it is a down pour and you are stuck in the cabin the entire weekend staring at each other. The rain hitting the cabin top will be unbearable. You won't be able to hear each other talk, listen to the radio, or watch a DVD. And then wait until you use the head (toilet) and it stinks up the whole cabin.

We have a 53 foot boat. three staterooms, two heads, a full galley, saloon, and a huge aft deck and it gets cramped.