Active Fires today

[ckissick]

The smoke was so thick at 1 PM today in Half Moon Bay, just south of San Francisco, that it was like it was 1 AM. Totally dark. I've never seen anything like it.

[flatbutt]

If that happened where I live we'd be scrubbed clean. We have no resource capable of dealing with that.

[Bugsinrugs]

Originally Posted by Bigtoe32067

Thankfully we just have hurricanes to deal with and I say that sincerely.
Some of the pics of the fires burning are unreal.

Why so many?
It seems like the last few years have been really bad for the west.
I may not care for their politics but man I feel for their losses.
I can’t imagine entire towns burned off the map and it continues daily.
Is there more we can do other than pray for rain? Lots of it.
I hope everyone on here is safe and stays out of harms way.
Tony

Years of fire suppression, years of drought, insect infiltration killing trees, naturally occuring lightning and stupid people starting fires. Fall brings warm easterly winds that make any small fire huge.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

Years of fire suppression, years of drought, insect infiltration killing trees, naturally occuring lightning and stupid people starting fires

For emphasis.

[jyl]

One fire was started by an RV towing a car. Not sure about the others.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by jyl

One fire was started by an RV towing a car. Not sure about the other 89.

fify

[ckissick]

I did a little research on the history of fires in CA and found two diametrically opposed articles with charts of wild fire acreage over the years. Once again, we have to decide for ourselves, I guess.

The Breitbart chart is for the whole country and is the only chart I could find that goes back more than about 20 years. Wild fires were far more widespread in the 20s and 30s, I suspect due to a lack of fire-fighting efforts. But the chart shows that wild fires are generally very commonplace and a normal part of the ecosystem.

The grist chart doesn't go back far enough to make their conclusion about global warming, IMO.

You can't make a direct comparison between the two charts, but it's something.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2017/10/19/delingpole-what-the-greenies-dont-want-you-to-know-about-the-california-wildfires/

https://grist.org/climate/how-apocalyptic-this-california-western-fire-season-is-in-1-flaming-chart/

[911 Rod]

Wow. I had no idea. This must be devastating for the people involved.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Bigtoe32067

Thankfully we just have hurricanes to deal with and I say that sincerely.
Some of the pics of the fires burning are unreal.

Why so many?
It seems like the last few years have been really bad for the west.
I may not care for their politics but man I feel for their losses.
I can’t imagine entire towns burned off the map and it continues daily.
Is there more we can do other than pray for rain? Lots of it.
I hope everyone on here is safe and stays out of harms way.
Tony

The news & some politicians will immediately state that this is due to global warming. While I do not completely agree with the man-made portion of this problem, I will concede that there is global warming and that contributes to this.

That said, California has reduced forest management significantly and from what I've seen on various news/documentaries, CA is doing 1/10th the amount of controlled burns and thinning of the forest that used to be done. This has happened over the last 10 years. Much of this has been driven by the Sierra Club.

I guess we must accept that instead of losing tiny sections of the forest each year due to forest management, we have to accept total devastation instead. And, we are ok with importing lumber and cutting down other people's trees but not our own.

[rusnak]

^ I would suggest they change their name to "Cascades Club" and move to their own 'country'. Disasters like these tend to bring out the silent majority. This is when elected leadership realizes that it should not be about special interests, but rather about the vast numbers of ordinary people.

[jyl]

The shortfall in controlled burns has been due to many causes. Manpower, budget, liability, air quality, etc. https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/why-isnt-california-using-more-prescribed-burns-to-reduce-fire-risk/

I think the fundamental problem is that a controlled burn costs money and brings no immediate financial benefit.

[jyl]

Sun is blood red and sky is brown, in Portland right now.

Scanning news reports, looks like hundreds of structures burned and half a million acres.

On the positive side, wind not as strong, weather cooling a little, possible rain next week.

[jyl]

Western forests have been quite affected by climate change. Heat and drought and less subfreezing periods have stressed trees and made them more vulnerable to disease, you see a lot more dead (brown) trees in the forests. I just lost a 100’ tree on my own property and am watering the others now. I think this sort of intense fire season is going to be The New Normal.

A friend was telling me about one proposal to cut very wide firebreaks to essentially separate areas of the mountains and contain fires.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by jyl

The shortfall in controlled burns has been due to many causes. Manpower, budget, liability, air quality, etc. https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/why-isnt-california-using-more-prescribed-burns-to-reduce-fire-risk/

I think the fundamental problem is that a controlled burn costs money and brings no immediate financial benefit.

Sometimes there is no immediate benefit (other than saving lives). Now that we saved all that money, we can use it as a down payment on the loan we will need to pay for the billions in damage caused by these recent fires.

We have homeless people all over California. I find it hard to believe that we don't have manpower. Maybe some people that aren't working need to start.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by jyl

Western forests have been quite affected by climate change. Heat and drought and less subfreezing periods have stressed trees and made them more vulnerable to disease, you see a lot more dead (brown) trees in the forests. I just lost a 100’ tree on my own property and am watering the others now. I think this sort of intense fire season is going to be The New Normal.

A friend was telling me about one proposal to cut very wide firebreaks to essentially separate areas of the mountains and contain fires.

That is the main driver for the severity of these fires. Climate change weakens the trees, makes everything dry out more, drives intense winds, and allows insect pests to breed all year long - plus a longer list of things

wildfires are generally very commonplace and a normal part of this ecosystem - it is the severity of the fire that has gone way up (W. conifer forests; also true of southern pine forests)

2/3 to 90% of ignition events are due to humans - the above is what happens after a fire is ignited

USFS is now spending most of its entire budget on fire suppression; leaving little money for everything else - Congress just this year altered the funding pools, but it will be a long time before the forests can be thinned to make the fires less intense

thinning means removing some trees - usually the small "doghair" trees
all branches within 8 ft. of the ground need to be trimmed off
then it is all piled and burned just before a rain

the above is labor intensive and has to be done over thousands of square miles of forest

the other fly in the ointment is ecosystem conversion - again caused by climate change
- that means the ecosystem will change to a different type of ecosystem

all the Douglas Fir forests that the enviros have fought so hard to "save" will change to some other type of plant cover

with luck and a lot of work, some can change to Ponderosa Pine

it won't be fun and you are seeing the future coming at you hard

[ckissick]

So how effective are controlled burns and how long do they keep their effectiveness? On the news they keep saying Paradise is in danger of burning down all over again, from the nearby Bear Fire. But the Camp Fire was 2 years ago. If this is true, then how effective can a controlled burn be? Hopefully, the media are wrong, which certainly would not be the first time.

[vash]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Considering how much antifa and blm folks love fire....well, I gotta wonder?

bureau of land management HATES fire.

[VINMAN]

Flew over this yesterday afternoon, just coming into LA.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by ckissick

So how effective are controlled burns and how long do they keep their effectiveness? On the news they keep saying Paradise is in danger of burning down all over again, from the nearby Bear Fire. But the Camp Fire was 2 years ago. If this is true, then how effective can a controlled burn be? Hopefully, the media are wrong, which certainly would not be the first time.

it varies - they have to be done at a certain frequency for each 'area' (ecosystem and more local area)

but it worked well for the Indians in the western US...

[RWebb]

Oregon fires are now 3x the area burned of the fires that were collectively called The Tillamook Burn

the 1910 fires (Big BlowUp) still hold the historical record...