Adams Probe 16 Restoration Project...

[908/930]

I just tried detecting a small powerful magnet through 1/4 aluminium with a small compass, can easily point to it from 4 inches away. Pretty low tec but better then getting arrested trying to buy a cobalt 60 source to shoot a X ray, LOL.

[Prestallion]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

In the case with the tank, I don't see any spot where one would be able to put a "receptor?"?

Ultra sound works differently by bouncing sound waves off of stuff. That might work.

I’m familiar with how both x-ray and ultrasonic testing works. I’ve had some experience with both nondestructive testing methods and have no doubt either one could help solve your issue if none of the other cheaper/simpler methods are able to.

Ultrasound could probably give you a decent enough image for what you’re trying to accomplish.

I hear what you’re saying about the x-ray detector positioning, but I don’t think that’d be an issue. There are portable X-rays that are strong enough to penetrate through very dense/thick materials and could penetrate through a section of fiberglass, wood, and stainless sheet metal. Take an image from the top down to get your cross-car and fore/aft location, and then an image from the side view to get your up/down position.

[Prestallion]

Originally Posted by 908/930

I just tried detecting a small powerful magnet through 1/4 aluminium with a small compass, can easily point to it from 4 inches away. Pretty low tec but better then getting arrested trying to buy a cobalt 60 source to shoot a X ray, LOL.

I like this idea better than X-ray, it’s simple.

[Wayne 962]

Okay, so I just spent some time in the garage. The tool of the day? High powered magnet!



-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Prestallion

Take an image from the top down to get your cross-car and fore/aft location, and then an image from the side view to get your up/down position.

Hmm, good point, I hadn't thought of top-bottom. That would give some clues. Anyone got a spare x-ray machine? I didn't find one at Harbor Freight tonight!

-Wayne

[908/930]

I did build a unit years ago to hold a x ray head and a detector, I could check if it is still in use. It was intended for medical imaging but should work. It was bolted to a gamma knife though, could be a problem getting over the border.

[petrolhead611]

If you are drilling into a fibreglass wheel well couldn't you use a tank cutter to make a large enough hole to facilitate easy access to the pipe connection, and glass it up afterwards?

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

Hmm, good point, I hadn't thought of top-bottom. That would give some clues. Anyone got a spare x-ray machine? I didn't find one at Harbor Freight tonight!

-Wayne

I actually have one in m garage. My grandfather was a dentist. I'm afraid to turn it on....or dispose of it. I can give you a great deal!

[javadog]

There is a way to use some basic carpentry tools and a little measuring and layout work to determine a point directly below the outlet that would be a good starting point for an investigative access hole to be drilled. It would take an hour for me to type it all but if you want to try it, let me know and I'll work on it.

[Leprcon311]

First time forum post.
Was sent here by fellow gear-head driving buddy, because of my boat repair and fiberglassing experience.
First: Really cool project, love the look and the history behind it.
Second: Boatbuilding 101.
Polyester resin (without a doubt), chopped strand mat, urethane foam and wood.
So the exploratory surgery tool here is a 1.25 inch hole saw, but one that has grinding grit on it, not teeth.
This makes small enough holes for visibility, that can then be easily re-glassed back over, and the circles are small enough (and strategically placed) so the don’t effect structural integrity.

OK, I hate this part because it feels so immodest.
I have been doing fiberglass repairs as a tinkering hobby for 15-20 years.
I work as a Manufacturing Engineer for a major aerospace company, specializing in Composite fab and repair.
I have taught a Composite fab shop class at a local SoCal junior college (wet layup and prepress) since 2001, so have lots of sources and connections.

I would love to come by (safety protocols of course) and take a look and help on a volunteer basis, cause this is such a cool and unusual project. (I cut my teeth on aircooled VW’s but have moved on to Datsun roadster canyon carver)
When I learn how to Private Message I will send along contact info. I commute daily from Seal Beach to El Segundo, so am around in the area regularly.
Sorry for the long post.
Fergus O

[kmoush]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

Potential solutions? Well, I have none, but I have maybe a first step. I can perhaps do the following, let's start out with the bad ideas:

- I can test the line to see if it leaks. The line looks like crap, and it's really a bad idea to leave it in there. But the thought did cross my mind for a brief moment. I thought that maybe this fuel hose was some metal hose that was just rubber coated, but it's not. This is a bad idea.

- I thought about some how running a new line from somewhere more accessible, but then I would have to plug the old line (which is old and seems damaged), so that defeats the whole purpose too.

- I could simply not use one tank if one line is leaking and the other is fine. That is also a poor plan.


These ideas are better:

- Cut / disconnect the fuel hose on each side and then thread some pipe cleaner in there to see if I can feel where the line goes. Perhaps I can make it stick out into the tank so that i can confirm the location of the outlet hole. This would be done prior to poking any holes in the chassis.

- I can poke an exploratory hole in the fender well. Somewhere in this area:




I think that this is going to have to be the best option, and I will have to make a *ton* of measurements (like a surveyor) in order to figure out exactly where my hole should be drilled. It's too bad I don't have an ultrasound machine or some type of x-ray machine that could see through wood. I do have a "stud finder" for walls, but I don't see how that could possible be useful. I also have a stud finder magnet that is ultra powerful and can find metal through walls - maybe I will grab that from work and try that out - there might be a hose clamp that is right on the other side of the wood that the magnet will hang on to.

I suppose that if I make an "access panel" to get to the bottom of the tank, I can then reinforce it with steel. My big concern is cutting a hole in the wood chassis and weakening it a bit.

- I can try to cut the fuel line very close to where it enters the "bulkhead", then shove it in there and then stick my camera in there to see if I can see anything. This would screw me in case I needed to somehow thread that line back again, but I don't really see that happening.

I'm so glad that the tanks have already been replaced. At least we don't have to cut the entire car apart. I will send this post to the son of the guy who replaced these tanks - he's like 87 or so years old now, and may or may not remember this from 40 years ago. That's like me remembering what I got for Christmas when I was 8 - probably not going to happen. I'll also send this to the guys in the UK for advice.

Okay, I'm ready for some help and advice on this - I'm stuck. Thanks in advance!!!

-Wayne

Wayne,
Since the outlet of the tank shown in the video is on the vertical wall of the tank, use a water level to determine the exact elevation of the tank outlet at the area you circled in red on your photo. The one tank shown in the video shows that the line from the tank to the pump comes from below the tank. One of your photos appears to show the other tank feed comes to a pump in the engine bay. Is that correct? If so this would not work on that tank. Either way consider using a water level. Very simple but is accurate and handy. To get the centerline elevation of the tank, fill the tank to the center line of the tank outlet.

Water level explained: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_level_(device)

[kmoush]

Originally Posted by javadog

There is a way to use some basic carpentry tools and a little measuring and layout work to determine a point directly below the outlet that would be a good starting point for an investigative access hole to be drilled. It would take an hour for me to type it all but if you want to try it, let me know and I'll work on it.

I find using a Self Leveling Combination Laser Level (available at HD) is very helpful. Measurements taken from inside the tank, can be translated to the outside of the car using a laser level. However be sure to set a datum line on your garage floor that is perpendicular to the x axis centerline of the car.

The datum line should be the centerline of the tank sending unit opening, or some other reference point.

[javadog]

He doesn’t need a laser level, he just needs a framing square, a tape measure, a plumb bob, some string and a sharpie.

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Leprcon311

First time forum post.
Was sent here by fellow gear-head driving buddy, because of my boat repair and fiberglassing experience.
First: Really cool project, love the look and the history behind it.
Second: Boatbuilding 101.
Polyester resin (without a doubt), chopped strand mat, urethane foam and wood.
So the exploratory surgery tool here is a 1.25 inch hole saw, but one that has grinding grit on it, not teeth.
This makes small enough holes for visibility, that can then be easily re-glassed back over, and the circles are small enough (and strategically placed) so the don’t effect structural integrity.

OK, I hate this part because it feels so immodest.
I have been doing fiberglass repairs as a tinkering hobby for 15-20 years.
I work as a Manufacturing Engineer for a major aerospace company, specializing in Composite fab and repair.
I have taught a Composite fab shop class at a local SoCal junior college (wet layup and prepress) since 2001, so have lots of sources and connections.

I would love to come by (safety protocols of course) and take a look and help on a volunteer basis, cause this is such a cool and unusual project. (I cut my teeth on aircooled VW’s but have moved on to Datsun roadster canyon carver)
When I learn how to Private Message I will send along contact info. I commute daily from Seal Beach to El Segundo, so am around in the area regularly.
Sorry for the long post.
Fergus O

Wow, that would be awesome. I expect this whole process to be a very slow slog - I've been looking at this for four months. I have a new camera coming today, and I think the least destructive thing to do today would be to cut the existing line, shove it back into the hole and then look around. This new camera has a 4mm head and records video, so I will post some here when I get it.

Gotta love Amazon, I still don't see how they can do it. This was $100 with a random $30 coupon at checkout. Ordered last night at about 7:30PM. On it's way here today. It will probably be here before I even get my newspaper today!



This thing got really good reviews, and the reviews span a year or two, so they are not likely to be fake...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by javadog

He doesn’t need a laser level, he just needs a framing square, a tape measure, a plumb bob, some string and a sharpie.

YUP!

[Wayne 962]

The real big clue is the high powered magnet is sticking right under the spot where I would imagine a hose clamp to be. I did an additional test where I took a hose clamp and put it on the inside of the fender and took the magnet and tested it on the outside, and it felt similar / the same. So, I'm very hopeful that the connection that I'm looking for is right there.

Again, I will do this later on today:

- Clip the gas line on the left side of the car (no going back after that).

- Thread a pipe cleaner / wire through the gas line and into the tank. I will look inside the tank to see the pipe cleaner come through.

- Then I will thread some string through the hose, so that one end of the string will be sticking out of the outlet in the tank, and one end will be out of the other side of the hose. This will allow me to "keep the path intact" on the current hose in case there is difficulty threading something in the future.

- Then I will stick the camera down that hole (I hope the radiator is not in the way, the area on the left side of the car seems to have a bit less access than the right side - perhaps I should do the right side first, although that outlet port appears to be clogged with old varnish / gas).

- The camera images should give more clarity on the path and what's in there.

A few smart people suggested something I hadn't thought of before. Just forget about the gas tanks on the sides and install a larger fuel cell / racing style one in the rear trunk. That's not a bad idea, and we have that in our Mercedes 190 SLR Roadster, but I would like to keep this Probe as original as I can at this moment.

Something like this:



Also thank you if you sent me an email - I literally have about 35 long emails in my inbox, and I will respond to every single one, probably after I do this new camera inspection...

Thx,

Wayne

[porsche930dude]

i didnt read much but id cut the line and shove it in you should be able to get somewhere like that. As for an access hole is there no way to get at it from the cabin down low? Then you dont have to mess with body work or questionable access at the wheel wells

[Zeke]

I'm as perplexed about this as anyone. However, after reading about the wire/string idea, I thought I'd share this: when rewiring an old lamp or light fixture with a lot of curves in the tubing supporting the sockets, I use a long lamp chain and a vacuum to get a pull wire in there.

It's already been mentioned that a flexible cable like a bicycle brake cable will have the strength to pull. The lamp chain will break with not much force but it will go around some pretty tight and complicated lamp designs.

There are many lubes for these projects so I'll leave it at that.

[Wayne 962]

Yes, it is confusing. There's no access from the cockpit - it's one solid / melded form of wood.

Here's a drawing from the rear:



-Wayne

[dad911]

Can you put a bulkhead fitting in a more accessible area and run a new line? Something that would also be serviceable later. Near the filler or sender?

Or are you trying to maintain originality?