Yet again, another generator thread.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by CalPersFatCat

1. Make sure that the NG meter and the electrical panel are on the same side of the house.
DL

AND make sure the NG meter is big enough to supply the gas you need. Our original meter was OK running with 2 gas furnaces, a gas water heater, and a gas cooktop. When I added the generator I had to pay $400 for a 400 cfm meter.

[wdfifteen]

Life can be ironic.
Last summer I ran a circuit from the generator panel in the west side of the house to the furnace in the east side. I had to drill through a concrete wall and cut access holes in drywall to fish the wire through our finished basement. Big PITA, but worth it to have heat in the east side of the house during a power outage.
Didn't have a power outage for months.
Saturday the thermostat system for furnace in the east side of the house went out, so the furnace went down.
Sunday morning the power was out for 4 hours for the only time in 6 months.
The generator worked like a champ, but of course all that work to power the east furnace went for nought.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

What size generator are you using to drive the well pump ? I have no idea what size/amps/hp my well pump is but I think a relatively safe guess is a 2500-3000 watt generator would run just the pump . Then there is the electric water heater which I may switch to LP for exactly the reason to keep amp load low . I think I can power my house with a 10 kw - 12 kw generator by being smart/conservative .

The issue with motors is not running current but starting inrush current aka "Locked Rotor Amps".

A 1 hp pump does not draw 744 Watts. You need to look at the motor nameplate for the current and the voltage. Some 1hp pool pumps draw 1776 Watts!

On inrush current, it can be anywhere from 3 to 5 times the rated current. Air Conditioners are notorious for high starting currents, since they have to overcome the internal pressure in addition to the motor windings. Well pumps are similar.

There are "soft start" devices which can reduce these inrush currents. The general rule is to over size your generator for starting current of the motors, plus the expect load.

Some generator manufacturers make devices to limit and prioritize different circuits.

[gsxrken]

My wife does some part time bookkeeping and sales support for an electrical contractor shop. They are overwhelmed with generator install quotes. In fact, if you ordered a whole house generator right now, it would be drop shipped in May. The prices are also insane. Done-done, they average $20k here in one of the wealthiest counties in the US. And the vampire townships of NY will get you for three permits: electrical, gas, and mechanical as well as filing fees and then ding your property taxes higher due to increased value of dwelling,

The ROI is questionable at best. I could stay at a hotel for $229 a night for MANY nights before the $20k generator got into the Black. But the convenience factor is huge and I won’t tell anyone how to spend their own money. I had them install a transfer switch with my priority circuits on it, and I roll out my 5500w Generac (that I bought for Y2K believe it or not) and plug into the dedicated transfer switch receptacle. If I wasn’t an able bodied, handy, and slightly thrifty individual who can wrestle with it and occasionally clean out the main jet and float bowl needle, maybe I’d look at an automatic one. But today is not that day. It has gotten used through probably 10 power outages including the Hurricane Sandy outlier over the past 20 years. Most outages around here are less than 8 hours by far, and the house HVAC and refrigerators can coast until the power is restored.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

The ROI is questionable at best. I could stay at a hotel for $229 a night for MANY nights before the $20k generator got into the Black. But the convenience factor is huge and I won’t tell anyone how to spend their own money.

It's more than just convenience for me. Power outages usually occur during a serious weather event. I don't think I could abandon my home if the area is devastated by a tornado, or more commonly (like yesterday) a heavy wet snow that brings down trees as well as power lines. I like to be here to keep watch over my home and protect it in case some opportunist wants to go shopping in my house.

[latunabernie]

We just went through 6 days of no electricity.
We installed a Kohler 20RCal generator with switching station in April 2020.
It was less than $8,000 with concrete pad installed.
We tied it into having Solar installed at the same time for Tax rebates.
What a relief not dealing with extension cords.
We have horses and are on a well , we need the power for water.
It runs the whole house and barn everything.
The idea of knowing when a Power outage occurs when I am not home my wife will have electricity is good for the soul.
The bad part is it uses lots of propane.
We have 3 100 gal. tanks. I keep 2 hooked up with a valve to switch tanks.
Have the other tank as a backup, which can be filled at any propane place.
The people with the big tanks have to have it filled by a propane co. that comes to your house.
You have to have a contract with them for them to show up. (Rent tank from them)
Lots of times they don't fill your tanks to capacity.
If you own your own tank good luck getting it filled when they are busy.
In Calif. we are going to have lots of Power outages by P.G.E. due to fire danger.
We run it during the day and shut it off at night.
So glad that we have it.

[billybek]

Bought a Honda generator for the trailer.
I didn't want to pick it up yet (warranty would start) so put 20% on it to hold until the beginning of April.
EU3000iKC1 3000 watt. Pull start.
The thing that won me over on this generator was the weight (78 lbs) and the wheels.
Should do everything we need it to do for the trailer and will be nice to have backup power at home.

[Joe Bob]

Geez, how did I miss this?

[Robert Coats]

Originally Posted by billybek

Bought a Honda generator for the trailer.

EU3000iKC1 3000 watt. Pull start.

This is the Honda "Handi" and was developed by Honda over 10 years ago. The goals were to provide a 3kw portable that could be man-lifted by one person. To get there, the engineers had to drop the on-board battery and electric start. The engine is 170cc (I recall) so easy enough to start as a lawn mower (160-190cc sized)

It's got a fold out handle and wheels so you can pull it along as a carry on suitcase. The internal frame of the Handi is made of super light an strong magnesium but adds to the cost.

Prior to the Handi, the Honda EU3000is as a much heavier model (134 lbs) but had on-board electric start, the larger 200cc engine ran at a lower, quieter rpm, and a larger fuel tank /run time. However, no wheels and at 134 lbs, it was a two man lift. It was also cheaper than the Handi. and has been in production > 20 lbs. Sadly, from what I can tell, it was recently discontinued, but dealers may still have in stock.

It was a bit of surprise to Honda that the EU3000is sales continued to outpace the Handi, bu the EU3000is offered more features and cost a bit less. As long as you didn't mind the weight, it was a better deal. Until you have to lift it

Last time I saw figures, the heavier EU3000is was outselling the Handi 3:1, but enough Handi's are appealing (especially) to elderly / RV customers who greatly prefer its significant lighter weight and built-in wheels. If you want one, don't wait much longer!

Oh, and yes, they are both inverter-tech designs, meaning the engine speed will adjust / match to load, unlike cheaper generators that run wide-open throttle sucking down fuel no matter if you plug in a night light or a deep fryer.



[B]Full specs on both here: gen.honda.com

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by billybek

Bought a Honda generator for the trailer.
I didn't want to pick it up yet (warranty would start) so put 20% on it to hold until the beginning of April.
EU3000iKC1 3000 watt. Pull start.
The thing that won me over on this generator was the weight (78 lbs) and the wheels.
Should do everything we need it to do for the trailer and will be nice to have backup power at home.

I think you will like the performance of the generator for your camper . My 1968 Avion truck camper has what I believe to be the original roof AC unit . It is an inefficient beast and my EU3000is handled it easily . I ran the generator in econo mode and when the compressor kicked in the generator would bump up and then settle back to econo once the compressor kicked in . I have a much newer roof AC unit to install as I restore the camper . I know the generator performance will be even better with the newer AC .

[billybek]

I think the EU3000iKC1 is pretty much the same as the Handi but has the Cold Climate Technology for us up here in the great white north.
For me the light weight was the deciding factor along with being able to start the a/c.

[red-beard]

Running today on a 17kW Briggs-Stratton Natural Gas Generator. Lights and power and heat...

[billybek]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Running today on a 17kW Briggs-Stratton Natural Gas Generator. Lights and power and heat...

Looking at windy right now and the whole state of Texas is below freezing except for the very southern tip and that isn't a lot warmer!

No wonder the grid is overloaded.

How long do you anticipate that you will be without power?

[Robert Coats]

Originally Posted by billybek

I think the EU3000iKC1 is pretty much the same as the Handi but has the Cold Climate Technology for us up here in the great white north.
For me the light weight was the deciding factor along with being able to start the a/c.

Last time I checked, all modern USA-spec Honda generators offer a modest cost-up kit that is a tiny electric heating element that fits inside the breather tube. When you fire up the generator, the heat prevents ice from forming and blocking off the tube. This can cause back pressure inside the crankcase, and possibly oil leakage. I have only seen it happen in testing events done in upper USA (M-M-M-M-Minot) and Canada, and then only when the ambient weather conditions were "just right."

FYI, the heater runs off the generator's power, and consumes next to nothing. The heater is optional on all USA-spec/sold models, but I recall they are standard with Canadian-spec models.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by Robert Coats

Last time I checked, all modern USA-spec Honda generators offer a modest cost-up kit that is a tiny electric heating element that fits inside the breather tube. When you fire up the generator, the heat prevents ice from forming and blocking off the tube. This can cause back pressure inside the crankcase, and possibly oil leakage. I have only seen it happen in testing events done in upper USA (M-M-M-M-Minot) and Canada, and then only when the ambient weather conditions were "just right."

FYI, the heater runs off the generator's power, and consumes next to nothing. The heater is optional on all USA-spec/sold models, but I recall they are standard with Canadian-spec models.

That is interesting. I didn't know exactly what the CCT was but thought for this location it couldn't be a bad thing.
Thanks!

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by billybek

How long do you anticipate that you will be without power?

Not really sure. One side of the neighborhood lost power about 5AM and the other side 830AM. I'm guessing this is not the "rolling blackout" since it is lasting more than an hour.

Normally, Centerpoint Utility has an alert system to tell us when things will be back on-line. That crashed this morning.

Could be a couple of days. I'm chipping ice from my sidewalk so that we can move my parents over here tonight. I'd forgotten how strenuous chipping ice can be.

Also came back inside to find better gloves. Snowboard gloves should do better than the leather/fur gloves.

[billybek]

Salt is your friend at those temperatures.
Probably not a lot of Calcium Chloride ice melter around there but even rock salt will work.
Watched the temperature by day for the whole of North America and that huge mass of cold seems set to hang on for the next week or even two!

[red-beard]

Emergency management said at least 24 hours.

[nota]

I do not understand the transfer switch costs and permits + the tax increases
we have no real need for instant power here in the sub-tropics
so have a totally manual no permits or tax bumps system

how hard is it to turn off the main power switch on the main breaker box
before you start the generator ?

we keep the generator in the garage and have to move it before starting it anyway
and it needs a pull start and running connections plugged in first and all that is in the garage near the main power switch and breaker panel

the unit is an older style honda 13 hp that has power sufficient for 3 or 4 homes on a mini power [tv lights fans and frig] and we often share the power
older so no inverter but just use a device to filter and condition power for computers tv or game units as needed upc/apc type