One less 959

[group911@aol.co]

I think there was already a thread about this but I couldn't find it
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/19/austria-alps-motorcycle-museum-fire/#slide-2290026

[MMARSH]

How could you not have some kind of fire prevention system....That makes no sense.

[group911@aol.co]

Not that easy at the top of a mountain.

Originally Posted by MMARSH

How could you not have some kind of fire prevention system....That makes no sense.

[Superman]

This just makes my 959 more valuable.

Kidding. Poor taste, probably.

[Bill Douglas]

"couldn't prevent the flames from destroying the wooden building and most of the multi-million-dollar collection housed in it."

I think I've figured out what the problem is. They are so smart in some ways and so stupid in others.

[rusnak]

Idiotic. I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but there can be no better example.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

"couldn't prevent the flames from destroying the wooden building and most of the multi-million-dollar collection housed in it."

I think I've figured out what the problem is. They are so smart in some ways and so stupid in others.

"... the museum closed its doors on November 3, 2020, to comply with local COVID-related regulations, and it tentatively planned to reopen to the public on January 24, 2021."

What would start the fire if the building was closed up?

Something's not right about the whole situation.

[Joe Bob]

Before the fire I’ll just bet there was an increase in insurance coverage.

[group911@aol.co]

I don't know. In today's market, I'd rather have fun selling those priceless items than fighting with an insurer.
Other than the building, they were more than likely into that stuff for next to nothing. Unlike a lot of museums, those things were just plucked out of garages and put on display.

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Before the fire I’ll just bet there was an increase in insurance coverage.

[dafischer]

Yeah, you see a lot of these just sitting around in garages. Easy plucking.

[kach22i]

From the opening link:

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/19/austria-alps-motorcycle-museum-fire/#slide-2290027

Built at 7,135 feet, at the border between Austria and Italy, the Top Mountain Crosspoint stood out as the highest museum in Europe. Several feet of snow couldn't prevent the flames from destroying the wooden building and most of the multi-million-dollar collection housed in it. What sparked the fire — which started at about 4 a.m. local time — remains under investigation. Footage of the blaze is embedded below.

Fire protection systems (sprinklers) are designed to buy some time and this in turn will save lives, they are not intended to protect property. They are set up for a window of escape and to make rescue of human life by rescue teams unnecessary.

Timber construction is great because it takes a long time to burn though thick members and does not suffer from the decay of spray on fire protection coating clumping off of steel.

If it's not arson, that leaves electrical fire and lightning strikes. Being up top a mountain it could have been lightning.


10 things to know about thunderstorms that strike at night
https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=135631

Anyone who has been stirred out of bed in the middle of the night after hearing thunder knows that intense storms occur frequently after the sun sets.

When Lightning Strikes in the Mountains | Survival Guide
https://marvelmountain.com/blogs/blog/when-lightning-strikes-in-the-mountains-survival-guide

In fact, lightning strikes are more common in mountains than in low lands.

[dad911]

Could be snow/cold/ice related. We once had a snow 'drift' slide off a steel roof, strong enough to break a gas line. I won't assume they had gas, but it could have damaged an electric or fuel connection.

Looks like there was a speedster and an early 911 there also?

[Norm K]

[svandamme]

In Tirol, I think you'll find that most buildings in the mountains are built with wood, or at least a lot of wood in it.
Concrete foundations and parking lots. Concrete ski lifts.. But most everything outside the cities and villages in the valley.. above ground will be mostly wood or at least wood clad.

I don't think that's the real issue here.
The real issue is that once a fire gets under way, they cannot put it out.
where will you find water for fire fighting up in the mountains?? in winter?? ?
Snow, sure, but not water.

They may have water mains for cooking and toilets.. but pressure and volume for fire fighting?? very unlikely.

I reckon, once a fire is truly lit, past the point where a hand held extinguisher can put it out,
they are chit out of luck up there in the mountains.

[DonDavis]

Screw the 959, did you see all those fantastic motorcycles? Such a bummer.

[group911@aol.co]

Heavy timber construction is an excellent choice for structural members to contain the damage until the fire can be suppressed. Looking at videos and photo's, not seeing conventional sprinkler systems but that doesn't mean they weren't there. Sprinklers are designed to control fires at their incipient phase and typically do so.
I would tend to think it wasn't sprinklered since it requires 90PSI at the head to work properly. Say they were only 1000 feet above the closest source of a decent water supply, that would take approx 500PSI to lift it there plus the 150 or so static to get a flow PSI of 90.
The other option would be water storage above it for supply which I can't see in any of the pictures.

Originally Posted by kach22i

From the opening link:

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/19/austria-alps-motorcycle-museum-fire/#slide-2290027


Fire protection systems (sprinklers) are designed to buy some time and this in turn will save lives, they are not intended to protect property. They are set up for a window of escape and to make rescue of human life by rescue teams unnecessary.

Timber construction is great because it takes a long time to burn though thick members and does not suffer from the decay of spray on fire protection coating clumping off of steel.

If it's not arson, that leaves electrical fire and lightning strikes. Being up top a mountain it could have been lightning.


10 things to know about thunderstorms that strike at night
https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=135631



When Lightning Strikes in the Mountains | Survival Guide
https://marvelmountain.com/blogs/blog/when-lightning-strikes-in-the-mountains-survival-guide

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

The other option would be water storage above it for supply which I can't see in any of the pictures.

They would need solar hot water heaters and lots of tank insulation to keep such a storage tank from freezing, not to mention electric tape to keep the supply lines from freezing.

Using water in such a climate, not only is there water damage but ice damage too.

A chemical system as found in a commercial kitchen hood system might be another option, but chemical damage might be as bad as fire damage.

There is no standard of care that I know of that could have prevented this other than early detection, and then one does not risk lives to save property.

[dad911]

Agree with Kach.

I've put in a few 20,000 gallon underground 'fire tanks' in our subdivisions, due to township requirements. I was amazed when there was a fire in the neighboring community, they didn't pull from our tanks. I asked a friend that volunteers, he said 20,000 gallons wasn't worth setting up to pump. Dumped alot of money into the ground on those things......

[group911@aol.co]

They must have adequate domestic supply- hydrants. 20000 gallons through a 125gpm handline will put out a lot of fire for a while.

Originally Posted by dad911

Agree with Kach.

I've put in a few 20,000 gallon underground 'fire tanks' in our subdivisions, due to township requirements. I was amazed when there was a fire in the neighboring community, they didn't pull from our tanks. I asked a friend that volunteers, he said 20,000 gallons wasn't worth setting up to pump. Dumped alot of money into the ground on those things......

[kach22i]

I've read that 50% of the time active fire suppression systems (sprinklers) malfunction and don't even go off.

If anyone ever gets involved with this topic at a community level please fight proposed building code changes that could add sprinklers to single family detached homes, it will only add cost and not increase safety.

Lobbyists.