Are hollow points ok in lever actions?

[cassisrot]

Is it safe to use hollow point 45 Colts in a Marlin 1894 lever action?

[tabs]

Absolutely NOT...the bullets are hollow and will blow the spoon up...the real answer will be provided by Higgin bottoms..

[id10t]

Yes, as long as the face of the bullet is flat (like most pistol hollow points are).

What you don't want is a bullet with a point small and hard enough to act as a firing pin when your line of bullets in your leverspoon move around under recoil.

Hornady Leverevolution tries to get around this by using a soft squishy point, getting the better ballistics and hopefully mitigating the chain fire issue.

Other rifle designs solved this by spiraling the magazine, so instead of tip to center bullets would align tip to rim.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cassisrot

Is it safe to use hollow point 45 Colts in a Marlin 1894 lever action?

Does your lever have a scope ?

[red-beard]

I have polymer tip 30-30 VMax rounds that I've used in my Winchester.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I have polymer tip 30-30 VMax rounds that I've used in my Winchester.

Ayup. Notice that it is the Leverevolution from Hornady like I mentioned as a "pointy is OK in this case"

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by cassisrot

Is it safe to use hollow point 45 Colts in a Marlin 1894 lever action?

Absolutely. Any hollow point designed for revolver use is perfectly safe.

What are you going to use it for? The reason I ask is because there really is only one issue when using hollow point pistol or revolver bullets out of rifle length barrels - they tend to break up, and fail to penetrate, on impact. Handgun bullets have very thin jackets and large hollow points, ensuring expansion at relatively low impact velocities. When velocity is significantly increased, as it will be from your rifle barrel, these characteristic that promote expansion at handgun velocities become liabilities. I see you are in Texas - if you are planning on doing any hog hunting with your .45 Colt lever gun, you might want to consider a tougher bullet. A jacketed soft point, for example, might be a better choice. Or, better yet, a hard cast lead bullet of the "Keith" semi-wadcutter pattern.

[cassisrot]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Absolutely. Any hollow point designed for revolver use is perfectly safe.

What are you going to use it for? The reason I ask is because there really is only one issue when using hollow point pistol or revolver bullets out of rifle length barrels - they tend to break up, and fail to penetrate, on impact. Handgun bullets have very thin jackets and large hollow points, ensuring expansion at relatively low impact velocities. When velocity is significantly increased, as it will be from your rifle barrel, these characteristic that promote expansion at handgun velocities become liabilities. I see you are in Texas - if you are planning on doing any hog hunting with your .45 Colt lever gun, you might want to consider a tougher bullet. A jacketed soft point, for example, might be a better choice. Or, better yet, a hard cast lead bullet of the "Keith" semi-wadcutter pattern.

I have the hollow points for my saa’s. I’ve only used the Marlin for range fun and was just wondering if I could safely shoot the hollow points if circumstances suggested a hotter round than the 255gr cowboys I usually shoot. I’m not a hunter, but if I ever went hogging I guess I’d use my M1A.

Thanks for the usual excellent replies.

[Jeff Higgins]

It is nice to have options in light of today's ammo shortages, and to know that they are safe to use.

A neat little trick, if the lead bullet "cowboy" loads lead the barrel a bit, is to fire two or three of the jacketed bullets at the end of your shooting session. They are very effective at removing any leading. I'm guessing that is probably not a problem with the Marlin, though - I have several through which I only shoot cast bullets, and I've never had a problem. I do have several vintage rifles and revolvers with less than perfect bores, though, and this little trick has saved me a lot of effort with the cleaning rod.

[red-beard]

So Jeff, would "target"/FMJ ammo be better in a Lever, in general? Or are the jackets just thinner with handgun ammo and the FMJ just as problematic? Most of the regular 30-30 ammo seems to be "flattened" soft point with an exposed lead tip.

Most of my .38spcl/.357mag ammo is round nose FMJ. Not "pointy", but...

Looking at Ballistics by the inch, some of the loads almost double in velocity going from 4 inches to 18!

[red-beard]

Well, I was wrong. All of the my .38/.357 FMJ bullets have a very flat nose.

[Jeff Higgins]

FMJ ammo tends to have very stout jackets. They are not meant to expand on impact, and feeding in semi autos without deforming or hanging up is their most important trait. Their noses tend to be round so that they feed reliably. These round noses and lack of expansion make them pretty much unsuitable for hunting, though, since they leave a minimal wound channel that tends to close up behind them, limiting hemorrhaging. Truncated cone FMJ's are another ballgame - their flat noses with sharper edges "cut" a hole through tissue, leaving the wound channel open to hemorrhage a good deal more.

So, "better"? Not really. Great for plinking, and certainly cheaper than hollow points. There is a bit of argument concerning round nose bullets in lever guns - some say it's just fine, some warn against it. I think with .38 Special or .357 mag, the rounds are so light and the recoil impulse so low that they are fine for use in lever guns. I've never heard of any problems.

Your .30-30 is a different animal, though. Lots more recoil with much heavier ammo, so there is a very real possibility of a bullet nose acting as a firing pin. That's why all you see is flat point bullets - round noses would be a bit dicey here. Best to stick with the flat points.

The "velocity by the inch" thing kind of depends upon the powder being able to actually utilize increased barrel length beyond some given length. Most handgun powders won't be able to continue to add meaningful velocity beyond about a 12"-16" barrel. Increases fall off rapidly beyond that. As a matter of fact, once over 20" or so, some begin to lose velocity. Heavy "magnum" loads with slower burning powders will continue to add velocity, but "standard" pressure handgun loads are loaded with very small quantities of very fast burning powders, and are pretty much "used up" at that 12"-16" length. They are trying for maximum efficiency in shorter, say 4" or so, barrels.

[Jeff Higgins]

It's not unusual to see .38/.357 ammo with round noses, though. The old "police" .38 Special load was a 200 grain lead round nose.

Your flat points, or "semi wadcutter", or "truncated cone" bullets are far more effective, though. And very few revolvers have feeding problems requiring the use of round nose bullets...

[red-beard]

Here they are. Note, they are all smooth. That third one, it must be the lighting.

.357 two on the left and .38 two on the right

[red-beard]

On BBTI, there is definitely a fall off on velocity after 16 inches. They do show some data from real world guns. And they are basically only firing hollow point ammo. There was even a note on the site about the JHP not working well/fragmenting on impact in long guns.

I still want a lever in .357, even though it won't "do" anything for me.

[Tobra]

Oh, it will do plenty for you.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Here they are. Note, they are all smooth. That third one, it must be the lighting.

.357 two on the left and .38 two on the right

Those would all be just fine in any lever gun. Those nice rounded edges will make them feed very smoothly as well.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

That's why all you see is flat point bullets - round noses would be a bit dicey here. Best to stick with the flat points.

Ah! I assumed so. Makes perfect sense. I like excitement, but a whole bunch of rounds going off in the feed tube is more than I prefer.