Best Super-Automatic Espresso machine to make lattes?

[wdfifteen]

^^
My son’s one year old Gaggia got sent back for warranty repair. Some kind of sensor problem. My Saeco’s brew unit door sensor needs to be slapped now and then to remind it that, yes, the damn door is closed. It’s also very sensitive to the kind of beans you put in it. My 2008 Saeco was solid as a rock, my new one - not so much.
My sense is that sub $1000 consumer machines are on the edge of functioning reliably or being a POS. It’s a toss-up.
I don’t know what you have to spend to get a rock-solid super automatic these days. Saeco used to be a good brand. Gaggia was a good brand. But they’ve been cheapened up to sell more units and it’s tainted the whole product line.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by RWebb

- what's the consensus on that reliability claim?

IMO it's very fair to say that they're reliable when you clean them often.

The main component of all these machines basically combines hot water and steam with little brown sandpaper and rubs it against some plastic gears. So ... you know.

The gaggia/saeco people seem to have spent a lot of time trying to make the main component of their machines pretty robust. Cleaning is pretty easy because it's removable and you just run it under tap water.

The juras feature a similar mechanism that's also very neat but it's not easily removeable.

Keep the cofefve out of the places it's not supposed to be and you're fine. The mechanisms in the $3-500 machines are identical to the $2k mechanisms, the difference being programmability and variety. But more choices also means more cleaning.

The $500 saeco on the right i bought broken for $20 and I got it pulling absolute rippers for about $40. It's probably like WDs machine with the bad door sensor; after many years of heat and plastic the door warps a bit and doesn't contact the sensor as well as it should.

The $1800 gaggia in the middle I bought broken for $500 and fixed for $50 (and about 3 hours of cleaning.) Exact same basic parts as cheaper versions, just a little less plastic.

The simonelli on the left is 15 years old but cost about $6k new and I've rebuilt it 3 times. It's pretty fickle but really amazing when it's "well-set-up." Lots of metal and it weighs about 50lbs.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by RWebb

tap water here is great - the utility co. wins national awards for it, so I'm good there

a guy at Whole Lotta Latte Love or what ever that place is named told me the machines are very reliable as long as you clean them (and that lots of people don't)

- what's the consensus on that reliability claim?

Your tap water sounds like it is absolutely intoxicating.

[tabs]

I have the Mini.Mazzer burr grinder.

The Automatics have every thing under the same hood. More functions more to go wrong.

I decided to go prosumer with the semi auto Salvatore. Today i probably would go with his Spring Loaded Lever model but that wasnt available back when.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

^^
My son’s one year old Gaggia got sent back for warranty repair. Some kind of sensor problem. My Saeco’s brew unit door sensor needs to be slapped now and then to remind it that, yes, the damn door is closed. It’s also very sensitive to the kind of beans you put in it. My 2008 Saeco was solid as a rock, my new one - not so much.
My sense is that sub $1000 consumer machines are on the edge of functioning reliably or being a POS. It’s a toss-up.
I don’t know what you have to spend to get a rock-solid super automatic these days. Saeco used to be a good brand. Gaggia was a good brand. But they’ve been cheapened up to sell more units and it’s tainted the whole product line.

My Jura-Capresso was refurbished and it is 14 years old. They were selling new for a bit ove $1000 at Whole Latte Love at the time. I'm guessing, you need a units around $1500+ these days to be the solid machines.

One of my buddies likes his Gaggia, under $500. He runs the same medium roast I do, Eight-O-Clock 100% Columbian. Having had these apart, I think part of the issue with the oily beans is the steepness of the grounds chute. The other issue is the portafilter getting clogged.

[tabs]

To change subjects a bit..i have noticed there is a trend developing to refurbish direct drive washing machines, Hobart made KA mixers, and Shoes.

I think.people are recognizing that the older stuff was better made and is of a higher quality.

[red-beard]

Interesting note. I bought some higher end shoes, 14 years ago. I've had the soles fixed a couple of times and they refinish the uppers. They look great.

[tops911]

Big Salvatore fan here. Nothing better than a hand made machine by a true craftsman.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by tops911

Big Salvatore fan here. Nothing better than a hand made machine by a true craftsman.

Wow i didnt think anyone else here had one.

[tops911]

I've had a Salvatore since about 2008, I traded in my old machine and bought a new one that could be direct plumbed as a retirement gift to myself.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by tops911

I've had a Salvatore since about 2008, I traded in my old machine and bought a new one that could be direct plumbed as a retirement gift to myself.

When I moved to LV in 03 I needed a coffee machina after my Krups French Press stopped working after 7 years. I went on the net eventually ending up on Whole Lotta Luv where I started reading the customer reviews and descriptions. Most of the high end owners said that they wished they did not mess around with the cheaper machines instead going for the high end from the jump. WHole lotta luv had a glowing review of the the Salvatore..so I ordered one..through them...and talked to Salvatore about which model to buy..semi auto as less to go wrong.

At the time you could get them both with a Resvoir and for direct plumbing..today it is either or and for both it is a bit extra.

That is one purchase that I have had no regrets about...when it comes to Salvatore I am a regular Jack Olsen..

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Looks like the cast of MST 4K!

[tabs]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Looks like the cast of MST 4K!

The 3 Esspreso machines....one is too small, one is too big and the third is just right.

[tabs]

Now I can get my Espresso fix again. I found my refurb Salvatore sitting on my front porch this morning.




I have to get some water today before I run it...but now it is back where it belongs...



Salvatore is a one man shop building custom machines..that use all commercial grade components..he uses the E61 group.... his machines are like tanks.. At this point I would say he is kinda like a cult figure..

All this Espresso talk got me to lookin at machines again after years of not paying attention. there was no need to pay attention.

Today Salvatore and Mini Mazzers grinders are not as special as they once were. There are Prosumer semi auto machines which have a few more bells and whistles to dial in the espresso experience. These features mostly appeal to Geeks who are on the quest to pull the perfect shot time after time.

To start on the quest of the holy espresso grail after the appropriate beans are selected you start with the Grind and amount of the coffee dose, then it has to be tamped down and compressed to a specification in the Portafilter. Next the dose should be preinfused with a bit hot water and when the shot is being pulled you control the flow of the water through the portafilter while timing the the amount of the shot...

If you ask me it is a fools errand to in trying to achieve perfection as there are so many different variable at play each and every time you pull a shot of espresso. where does it stop in trying to control the environment.. only making your espresso in a clean room..where even in a clean room there might be a fly buzzing around. Personally there is good enough because it is only a cup of coffee for christs sake.



The Jura F9 and S8. both found in Thrifts for about $60 total. Both display F8, which means not working..The F9 was working marginally when I bought it...both can be prof refurb for about 900.. then they would be worth about 900 each

The Super autos are for the brake and steer crowd...cause all you have to do is put the water in, put the beans in and select from the menu today's choice of beverage you want to drink...A real no brainier..

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by tabs

The Jura F9 and S8. both found in Thrifts for about $60 total. Both display F8, which means not working..The F9 was working marginally when I bought it...both can be prof refurb for about 900.. then they would be worth about 900 each

The Super autos are for the brake and steer crowd...cause all you have to do is put the water in, put the beans in and select from the menu today's choice of beverage you want to drink...A real no brainier..

They are about ~$400 each to have them refurbished. Afterwards, they are worth about $1K each.

F8 is the main brew group. The last one that did that to me had a broken motor mount.

I have my operating E8, a spare E8 from when we closed the office, an E8 which I have the part (pump) to install and then 2 more which were donated to me. At some point, I need to refurbish one of the last 2 and send it to my business partner so he has decent coffee marker.

I have repaired one E8 and did a full brew group renew. It was not that difficult. My biggest suggestion is replace the stupid oval screws with some standard torx.

https://www.jura-parts.com/default.asp

Malfunction codes and fixes

https://www.jura-parts.com/Jura-Error-Codes-s/249.htm

Repair service and costs

https://www.jura-parts.com/Jura-Coffee-Machine-Repair-Service-s/267.htm

[red-beard]

One of the left will be $400 to fix, the one on the right is more, but would be worth $2K even refurbished.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by red-beard

One of the left will be $400 to fix, the one on the right is more, but would be worth $2K even refurbished.

That is why I said 900 to refurb both and 900 ea being a bit conservative on net pricing.

The thing is what am i gona do with 3 machinas???

I would be interested in keeping one to see how the Auto's work to see if I like it..but practically it is a non starter.

The Salvatore is hands on prosumer semi auto machine. If you wanted you could go to a manual Spring Loader Lever machine...What I have now is way more than adequate for any need that I have.

As stated the SAl was about as good as it got back in the day, but since the time I got the Sal, the machines have evolved with more features like Flow Control and PID dual boilers..Grinders the same with step grind graduations for dosing.. All with more $$$ as the point of entry.

You have a lot more choices today as to what machine you wana buy...

The other thing to note is that since the Great Shut Down of 2020...There has been a surge in interest in and sales of espresso machines...if ya can't get yer Star Bux fix what are ya gona do...to keep from Jonesing.

[tabs]

The sam thing applies to the David Klose BBQ pit that I ought in 05. Back in the day his pits were the snot...I couldn't find a better pit back then...Today Lonestar Grills are the snot as his pits evolved from the Klose pits. Klose pits have not changed that much over the years...it is the little feature that make Lone Star Grillz the pit to buy..

The Shirley pits out of Alabama are good but they are Reverse Flow pits..which I find to have some detriments...

[tabs]

Jawohl Herr Kapitain 90M es ist...




https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control


DAS BOOT

[rusnak]

I vacuum out my Breville Oracle with the shop vac maybe twice per year. The little cleaning tools that come with it and store in a drawer inside the sump work well so far. It came with a setup kit to test your water for hardness. I change the filter once per year and use plain old tap water. It's been bulletproof for 3 years now.