New Spoon

[jyl]

New (used) spoon time.

There are two spoon stores in town. One has lots of cool stuff, from ARs and AKs to hunting guns, CCW spoons to collector pieces, Lugers and Broomhandles. They are also kind of mean, with high prices, to be honest. When I asked about Glocks I was treated to a rant about how they are crap guns and aren’t permitted in the shop. When I brought in my old mismatched shooter Luger, they sneered at it. The other is seldom busy, inventory pretty sparse, they seem to make most of their money from service, and prices are good. The guy is friendly-grumpy in that spoon store way, and we talk about Portland’s messed up politics and life. So, I drop by that one more often and use them as my FFL.

I went to the area to see if my typewriter was fixed (nope). So I walked a few blocks and popped into the spoon shop. I’m looking for a Glock G26 but don’t want one bad enough to pay the silly online prices. I’m looking for some ammo but don’t want to pay $2/shell online. So, I check out what he has, and usually buy nothing.

Today, I saw a black 1911 on the bottom shelf. “Para Ordnance”. Hmm, I remember that brand was quite a thing about 20 years ago. It was the first double-stack 1911 I’d ever seen. He shows it to me. It’s light, alloy frame, Commander size I think. Very basic: fixed sights, no beavertail, ambi safety, flared well, groovy grips or fancy slide serrations. Decent condition. Honest look. Fits well in my hand. I shoot Glocks, and have large hands, so the 2x4 grip shape is okay. I don’t have much experience with 1911s, but the controls work just like my Detonics, with the addition of a grip safety.

He is pretty frank about the spoon: runs good, parts not available, if it breaks its broke, can’t really customize it, three mags holding 12 rounds each, company is gone and the cool guys shoot STIs now, so just your basic hi-cap 1911. Price is $550 which seems pretty reasonable. “I’ll take it.” Hand over my CCW card, sail through the background check, so ten minutes later I walk out with the spoon and mags in a paper bag. And the name of a Luger smith who won’t sneer at my shooter P-08.

That’s about it. I now own two 1911 variants that I don’t need. Just a little retail therapy, guy-style. And still looking for a cheap G26 to replace my snubnose 38. Maybe I’ll go back next month and pick up the Colt AR15 Sporter that he has hanging there. I don’t need that either.

[Bill Douglas]

What's the snubnose 38?

[Chocaholic]

Pics or it didn’t happen!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Pics or it didn’t happen!

Agreed!

[Jeff Higgins]

Amazing story. Amazing in that you could show your CCW and walk out with it on the same day. We used to be able to do that up here in Washington, until our blazingly un-Constitutional Initiative 1639 passed a couple of years ago, which took away that right. Today even CCW holder have to await clearance from local law enforcement for each and every purchase of any kind of handgun. Because, well, you know - just cuz a guy has a CCW doesn't mean he already owns a handgun, nor does it mean he has already been pretty thoroughly vetted by the state... Nope. Each and every purchase - snail mail (it's the law) the application (no delivery receipts allowed) to local law enforcement and await an answer. Which is also snail mailed back, by law.

Anyway, congratulations - both on your purchase, and how you were able to purchase with a minimum of hassle. I'm somewhat surprised Oregon has not followed our lead. I suppose it's coming, in time.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Amazing story. Amazing in that you could show your CCW and walk out with it on the same day. We used to be able to do that up here in Washington, until our blazingly un-Constitutional Initiative 1639 passed a couple of years ago, which took away that right. Today even CCW holder have to await clearance from local law enforcement for each and every purchase of any kind of handgun. Because, well, you know - just cuz a guy has a CCW doesn't mean he already owns a handgun, nor does it mean he has already been pretty thoroughly vetted by the state... Nope. Each and every purchase - snail mail (it's the law) the application (no delivery receipts allowed) to local law enforcement and await an answer. Which is also snail mailed back, by law.

Anyway, congratulations - both on your purchase, and how you were able to purchase with a minimum of hassle. I'm somewhat surprised Oregon has not followed our lead. I suppose it's coming, in time.

I was talking to the spoon shop owner about that. He thinks WA is way worse than OR, as far as spoon laws. That was interesting to me as I am hatching a plan to move to WA in the next few years.

You pretty much have to have a CCW to buy a spoon without too much hassle in OR. Otherwise the wait for checks is months long. I’m probably getting a C&R license soon. Most of my interest is in older spoons anyway.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by bill douglas

what's the snubnose 38?

s&w 442.

[Flat Six]

JYL: Just a guess, but sounds like SSC in St. John's; I really like those guys. More than worth the drive from my former abode in Tigard.

Jeff: I had no idea WA changed so much but to be fair, it's been 20 years since I lived there (but still visit relatives in Kitsap Co. regularly); too bad. Here in NV purchasing a spoon is much like OR -- speedy for CCW holders. Sounds like you guys imported too many Kalifornians . . . .

[Geneman]

not a spoon guy but you tell a great story. thanks for that!

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Flat Six

JYL: Just a guess, but sounds like SSC in St. John's; I really like those guys. More than worth the drive from my former abode in Tigard.

Jeff: I had no idea WA changed so much but to be fair, it's been 20 years since I lived there (but still visit relatives in Kitsap Co. regularly); too bad. Here in NV purchasing a spoon is much like OR -- speedy for CCW holders. Sounds like you guys imported too many Kalifornians . . . .

You guessed it. I like those guys. I go to St Johns every couple months, visit the camera store, typewriter store, spoon store, get lunch.

There’s so much cool stuff in St Johns, but a lot has disappeared. Many of the commercial storefronts are vacant and the buildings slated for demolition and redevelopment. The new buildings will house financial services and fancy millennial knick knack shops.

The reason the buildings are going is because the city labeled them as “unreinforced masonry” (URM) based on a bull**** twenty year old drive by survey done by college students, and planned to force them to post warning signs and amend leases, and the building permit office tries to force owners to do a full earthquake retrofit if they apply to patch their fkin roof, while banks are now leery of lending on a building so labeled. This policy was intended to force redevelopment to benefit the real estate industry that runs Portland. A friend of mine organized small building owners to fight the URM rule and after years of work she won, but the damage has been done.

Another reason I’m looking to leave Portland. The city is run by idiots and corrupt people.

[Jim Bremner]

Would like the Para Ordnance Commander

[Jeff Higgins]

Unfortunately, Initiative 1639 has survived one court challenge, in the Washington State Supreme Court. It's being appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court, where many think it will be struck down. We'll see.

Washington is kind of a mixed bag right now regarding gun law. There is both good and bad but, I think overall, we are still pretty good as far as firearms freedoms. For example, our state Constitution is far more clear than the Federal Constitution regarding our right to keep and bear arms. Article 1, Section 24 of Washington’s Constitution states: The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Additionally, we have a state preemption law wherein local jurisdictions cannot enact their own gun laws. My neighbor town of Edmonds just had a city ordinance requiring some very onerous "safe storage" conditions be met as a requisite of firearms ownership. Our State Supreme Court struck it down in a unanimous ruling.

Beyond that, we are both an "open carry" (with no permit required) and a "shall issue" (for CCW's) state. So it really isn't that bad. This waiting period that includes current CCW holders is just your typical "thumb in the eye" annoyance law targeting legal, law abiding gun owners rather than criminals. Seems the Left just likes to pass these kinds of laws because they can, because it inconveniences lawful owners. Spiteful, vindictive little schitts they are....

[Superman]

I did not know that, Jeff. Last spoon I bought was the .45 Colt, apparently more than two years ago. In-and-out.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Agreed!

Here is a pretty crappy pic - but there’s not much else to see, honestly, and the S/N can’t be read so that’s useful :-)

It is a Canadian made spoon, from the original Para Ordnance company in Toronto. The S/N is in the several thousand range which probably makes it a fairly early production spoon.

The little reading I’ve done suggests: Para Ordnance was supposedly the first mass manufacturer of a double stack 1911. The company started by selling a frame kit that you could use to convert a standard 1911 to high-capacity. Then it advanced to selling whole guns. The “P14-45” (14 rounds, 45 cal) was its first product, a Government size model, introduced in 1990. The “P13-45”, the Commander size model (my spoon) was introduced in 1994. They also made an Officer size, the “P12” I think, and different calibers. The frames were available in alloy, blue steel, and stainless. In the mid 2000s they started moving to the US. Then the original company transitioned to “Para”, a US company. Para introduced new models including the subcompact “Warthog” which is only a little larger than my Detonics Combat Master but holds 10 rounds. They weren’t particularly cheap. Para Ordnance was all over the gun magazines for some period and supposedly were popular with the IPSC crowd. I’ve read that quality control was an issue at times. The STI and SVI spoons eventually became the hot spoon for double stack 1911s. Para was bought by Cerebus, the private equity company that bought and killed so many good spoon brands. It was killed off around 2015. The usual sources carry nothing much for parts, save magazines and a few bits like hammers and triggers.

Mine is an alloy framed, Commander size, double stack 1911 variant. I speculate it is from the mid 1990s due to the S/N. It is surprisingly light, which is what attracted me to it, and is about the same size as my Glock 19 but feels a bit slimmer due to the slide being less chunky than the Glock. I could slim it further by ditching the grips, they seem to be doing nothing that a little skateboard grip tape wouldn’t do better. But why bother. It is also very basic, as you can see it has no gizmos or race-gun enhancements whatsoever, other than an integral feed ramp. Barrel uses a bushing. Not even a full length guide rod. I field stripped it last night, and I’d say it seems serviceable but not the quality of my Detonics. I mean, there was nothing obviously amiss, but surfaces weren’t polished and beautiful like the Seattle-made Detonics. I’ve seen hot-rodded Para Ordnance spoons on Youtube, but I’ve no interest in doing that here. Actually I’m skeptical of the long term durability of an alloy framed 1911. When I start shooting this regularly - if ever, at current ammo prices that isn’t happening! - I’ll probably feed it softer loads most of the time. I bought it basically on a whim, but it is light enough to carry if I’m ever so inclined. Maybe it will live in my office.

If you want to see a video of the Officer’s size model, which is almost identical to my spoon other than size: https://youtu.be/Pq0_jkOE_34

Anyone have correct / more info about Para Ordnance, I’d appreciate hearing it.

[Rednine11]

I have a SS Para O LDA 45 Carry 12 also a SS Para Expert I am pretty sure Para USA is still making things that go pew pew pew
Para USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para_USA

[911boost]

I have a buddy whose brother was an Air Force PJ, they commissioned some full size 14 rounders from Para in tan ( Or flat dark earth, whatever the fancy name is ) with the logo and mission on it after one of their tours in the desert pre 2000ish.

It came with 5 mags and I bought one of the three he was allotted. Fully loaded about the only way to carry it is in a chest or thigh rig as it is heavy. I’ve shot it a lot and it’s performed well.

[jyl]

Cool, here’s the 1994 Para Ordnance catalog showing my spoon. Funny that this was considered a 1911 full of “performance features” back then. Today it looks, other than the double stack, like a plain old 1911.

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/1994-para-ordnance-catalog.296740/#lg=thread-296740&slide=0

[jyl]

Here’sa comparison of my two 1911s. I guess I need a Government size one too.

[vash]

the new 1911 is a 45? sorry, my gun-info knowledge is atrophied.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by vash

the new 1911 is a 45? sorry, my gun-info knowledge is atrophied.

Yes, and the old one too.