Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 11384504)

Really? Let me ask another question (cstreit didn't answer my first one but you are welcome to do so):
Did you ever notice that if a white person is murdered in a bad neighborhood with gangs and violence, no body saw nuthin. If a police officer shoots a person of color people half the community saw it and people from three states all testify about how the thug with a rap sheet longer than your arm was such a kind and gentle soul... ?
Here's the MSM portraying the violent thug:
:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 11384391)

I'm scratching my head wondering how a black man riding a neon colored Kawasaki, alleged ... I can't tell, is now a "cultural norm".

Anyone else ?

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 11384732)

Allegedly chose a gun, as claimed by the other with no witness that we know about who can corraborate ... see the different perspective ? The fact that he was carrying on isn't pertinent since "everyone" in Texas carries one.



Brand newish looking bike, hardly impoverished I think you're jumping way ahead to the socio-economic stuff which may be completely irrelevant within this context let alone talk about a solution, this thread is still about the shooting right ?

Yeah, I did ask mainly because I don't see how it relates to this incident ... for now.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 11384337)

This is exactly the kind of "woke" virtue signaling to which I was referring. Play the race card any time anyone even attempts to start a dispassionate discussion on this matter.......

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 11382431)

And therein lies the problem with far too many people. Color is a factor in this whole "gun violence" problem and, to be brutally honest, it is statistically one of the most important factors.

Understanding and acknowledging all of the factors contributing to any problem is the very first step in solving that problem. Ignoring any contributing factors for any reason, be they religious, political, or whatever dooms any "solution" to failure. We have now suffered generations of failure in our attempts to solve this particular problem, in a large part because it is taboo in certain circles to discuss one of the most glaring contributing factors.

Originally Posted by black73 (Post 11384759)

Yeah woke, virtue signal, race card, all the cute buzzwords. Am I the one that brought race into the discussion?

Be honest, you're not as concerned about black lives, youths, etc. as you are about optics, You just want to make sure that the optics show white gun owner equals responsible gun owner and black gun owner equals irresponsible gun owner. You want to make sure to frame the discussion in a racial context to incriminate the race and exonerate the weapon. IOW, please oh please please please don't put any restrictions MY toys just because some other race kills people with them!

Am I correct?

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 11384758)

*Sigh* (again...)

We used this incident as a springboard into a deeper discussion, since the details of this specific incident are not that well known at this time. I have, over the course of this discussion, made it quite clear that the specifics of this young man's own situation were pure conjecture on my part and that I was only using them as a starting point for a broader discussion. You missed that, of course, because you were too lazy to go back and read through this thread and asked for a summary of some very specific aspects of this conversation, which I provided (certainly not of the entire conversation). You are well behind this conversation at this point. Perhaps you should now take the time to go back and read through it. Or not - your choice. Just don't expect me to respond when you again rehash something we covered a few pages back.

Originally Posted by john70t (Post 11384747)

My best guess is that they want to appear organized while culturally-appropriating Japanese culture.
(While skipping the essential part about being organized, intelligent, self-invested, cognizant and very respectful of civy surroundings, etc, etc, etc)

https://www.bosozokustyle.com/what-is-bosozoku/
"The zoku part in the word indicates it is about a gang"

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 11384784)

Just that everyone has to wade through the multipost multipage verbiage which is based on a conjecture and not realize that is the case, including myself prior to this. Now I know.

Carry on with the sermon then !

Originally Posted by MikeSid (Post 11384616)

I believe the cause of this problem is actually well understood, but difficult to change, or perhaps there is just institutional resistance to the change that is required.

In short, black neighborhoods have statistically higher rates of gun violence than other (like white) neighborhoods of the same socio-economic level. I don't think this statistic can be seriously disputed (part of Jeff's point). A middle class black neighborhood will have a higher rate of gun violence than a middle class white neighborhood.

The problem is that we still have black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods. Most cities in the US have long standing race based neighborhood boundaries that were rooted in systemic racism. While the zoning laws have slowly changed over the years, it takes a long time for a community to completely equalize. And there may be resistance to this change, even by those who would benefit from it.

Black neighborhoods have traditionally had fewer resources available to successfully raise families. In my own city, which I have lived in for over 50 years, the difference between the parks department youth programs in one neighborhood versus another is palpable. The City may build a shiny new ballfield and community center, but that may not change how it is used. A community is more than it's physical infrastructure - it requires volunteers, business owners that invest in the community, and families that actively participate in raising their children to be responsible parts of that community. There are not as many (some may say none) impediments to doing that now in black neighborhoods, but there certainly used to be broad barriers that made that very difficult. Hope, as one example. If you don't have it, everything seems pointless, so why try, just survive.

Bottom line for me, it is going to take several generations to fix the long term effects of systemic racism that created our historic black and white neighborhoods. And until that changes, we will continue to see gun violence at a higher rate in historically underserved neighborhoods.

All that said, I have no idea where this motorcyclist lived or what his story is, so maybe his damage is just too much violent TV/Movies. But to Jeff's point, I don't think the statistics can be seriously disputed, and in my opinion the fix for that issue will likely take 100+ years - which is incredibly unfortunate.

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 11384800)

Interesting.

80s Civic makes sense then. What about the hand gesture ?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1625704153.jpg

Originally Posted by upsscott (Post 11384908)

Thank you for this. I think you illustrate my thoughts much better than I’ve been able to do. I don’t deny Jeff’s statistics I just feel like we are all part of the reason things are the way they are.

Originally Posted by upsscott (Post 11384918)

https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/dallas-tx/jaderek-gray-10251666
To be honest this kid, and he was a kid, did not seem like a thug. He was a kid who made a horrible decision that cost him his life. I don’t hold anything against the man who defended himself and his family. The whole thing is a horrible tragedy.

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 11384743)

Flip the roles and the opposite scenario is just as believable to someone like the speaker and the audience he panders to in that youtube video I posted, namely a white man, with a family in the car no less, kills a young black fella in fear of his life and family's safety, in other words self defense will be taken for his word as the complete truth, given the police made no claim about having any eye witnesses to the shooting. Dead men tell no tales, needless to say, but is that how justice should play out ? In fact, flip the color in this incident, tell me ... will the treatment be identical ?

Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 11381781)

Putting aside all the conjecture and made up facts that weren't reported;

A guy walks toward a car with his gun drawn. The driver defends himself and kills the assailant. I call this a win for the Second Amendment and now the woke progressives will come up with 100 reasons why we need to ban guns or there was racial prejudice...

In the meantime, I love events with happy endings.

Originally Posted by upsscott (Post 11384915)

That gesture can easily mean “I love you”. My wife flashes me this gang symbol every time I leave on a trip. Is she a gang banger?

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 11384776)

No, you are not correct.

Several of us have been having a wonderful, enlightening conversation regarding some very serious issues, issues resulting in dramatically off the scale violence and death affecting young black men in America. It appears that you are not only unable to contribute to this conversation, but on top of that, it has made you very angry. Angry to the point where you have decided to attack me rather than make any attempt to contribute.

I'm sorry, but your approach is precisely the one we have decried over the course of this conversation. You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge even the existence of this problem, even in the face of overwhelming statistical data that outlines it very clearly. You would rather conjure up some evil, self serving ulterior motives and assign them to those of us who think we need to discuss this. With angry, ignorant people like you chirping in the background like this, we have little hope of ever finding at first the underlying causes and then, hopefully, a solution. That makes me very sad.