I almost fell off the chair when I read this! LOL! If you had a history of posting about concern for blacks, reaching out to help and understand, I would not blink an eye at that ...errr..... statement. But instead your history is of guns, guns, gun rights, gun owners rights, 2A, 2A, 2A, ammo, guns and guns.

You can admit or deny but it is obvious to everyone the only reason you have any interest in this subject, or are presenting these arguments at all, is because you see incidents like the one in the OP as a threat to your gun rights. You feel need to divert the argument, blame the race, troll, act indignant, etc., all in an effort to protect and defend your precious fire arms. No one is fooled by your "Philanthropy".

I was going to start a new post about why Americans are the most incarcerated people on this planet. Then I read your post Black 73 as one of being an understanding and rational person. Too bad more folks are not more like you. Well said.

Cheers Guy.

Black73 I am curious if you believe there are responsible gun owners in the US ? I ask because I consider myself a responsible gun owners . What does that mean ? To me I have pistols/rifles/shotguns that I enjoy for sport and as self defense if ever needed . My guns are locked in three safes to keep my family safe. I have never wanted to shoot a neighbor/coworker etc for any reason .

The point I am making is attacking responsible gun owners like myself solves nothing . Painting with a broad brush like all blacks are criminals and all white people are rascist not only isn't true but solves nothing . Again to solve a problem you have to understand what the problem is . That determination has to be based on facts/statistics without emotions . Then a solution or solutions can be formulated/discussed/implemented . Just my opinion . We can ALL do better as a society/nation .

I'm still curious ... "what" triggered the MC rider's response? Was it an innocent "lane change" by a crappy driver, or was it an "intentional" attempt to stop the rider? If the latter, many, many riders carry (illegally), and if intentional, the "biker types" that Higgins used to associate with would have reacted in a similar fashion. I've had three instances in my life where "redneck" or "biker types" pulled a weapon on me that would have merited a lethal response... but I'm still here ;).

How anyone thinks this was a "happy ending" .... well, that's still very weird to me.... I doubt they've ever killed anyone. Whether just a schitty driver, or knowing "he" intentionally cut off the MC... only he knows. I guarantee this .... his life has changed forever.... and not in a good way imo.

The black community has issues, the gun community has issues.....

I have issues ;)...

Carry on....

Your question is loaded with a no win phrase. "Kill or be killed" lends one to think that people are just itching to legally go shoot someone. I am not a violent maniac.
That said, I will say that YES! I have a right to defend myself and not be a victim of an assailant intent on causing serious injury or death. If you would rather let them shoot you and have the police come and draw a chalk line around your corpse then that is your right. I hope you don't feel that way and also hope you are not a victim of your decision to not protect yourself. In truth, you are your only first responder.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1625754613.jpg

I truly feel sorry for you. You don't know me from Adam, yet you have convinced yourself you have me figured out. And so much anger, resentment, hatred, judgement... wow... I hope that some day you can find your peace. This is no way to go through life.

I could not agree more. These are precisely the points I've been trying to make all along. Unfortunately, the absolute lack of objective reason displayed by thioe Black73 guy can still be found in far too many people. Broaching these topics in a calm, reasonable, logical, dispassionate manner as you have done here will only serve to set these guys off, as Black73 has so convincingly demonstrated. He (and many like him) does not appear to possess the tools necessary to contribute to this discussion in any kind of a meaningful, thoughtful way, so he simply lashes out with angry, baseless accusations. It's a defensive mechanism for guys like him - the "best defense is a good offense", right? So, yeah, he represents why I don't think we can ever have a national conversation on these matters. And that's a shame...

When people get wrapped up in their delusions and suppositions there isn't much you can do but let them be. You need to remember not to let yourself get sucked into useless rantings. As the expression goes "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig loves it"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1625755929.jpg

I'm sure the Lt. Col. is extremely responsible with his firearms. The same cannot be said for a wide swath of this country.

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The discussion is happening. That doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with all of your questioning. I say questioning because that's all it is. Difficult questions that none of us are qualified to answer.

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Agreed. I have to say, I have very much enjoyed this discussion. A few of us have agreed to disagree along the way, such as myself, upsscott, and pmax. But, you know, I respect them and the manner in which they presented their respective ideas and arguments. This is pretty sensitive subject matter but, for the most part, we have all remained civil and have stayed on point. Very enjoyable.

Against that background, one participant stands apart from the rest. This Black73 guy has yet to address the actual subject matter. He has chosen instead to attack the guy he disagrees with - me. He appears unable to articulate his disagreement, or to form any sort of a reasoned counter argument, so he chooses to try to make it personal instead - with a guy he has never met, assigning all manner of undesirable personality traits, unsavory thoughts, and ulterior motives. All products of his imagination, of course, and all meant to cast me in the worst possible light.

I wouldn't blame you guys if you started to suspect that "Black73" was merely an alter ego I have created in an effort to "sock puppet" myself to help me raise additional points. He's just too convenient, too "on point", to predictable. A way too useful example of the "other side". Lacking the intellectual tools to engage in the topics at hand, all he sees is that we are discussing problems in the black community, so we must be "racists" with our own selfish motives for doing so. There can be no other explanation...

Alas, no, it's not me. I'm not that conniving, nor do I have the energy for that. Unfortunately, he appears to be quite real. Worse than that, he is representative of an intellectual underclass who are incapable of understanding these discussions, and who see a "racist" behind every tree. They are out there, they are who we are up against. And, as I've already pointed out, their presence leaves me with little hope of ever having a national discussion on these matters. The shrill fools, like Black73, will simply drown us out with their accusations of racist driven ulterior motives. What a shame that is...

Again, we agree. Lots of questions. None of us have the "answers". But at least we're talking. It has to start somewhere...

And with that, I feel as though we have pretty much been around the block on this one. We have left one another with a lot to think about. I think I'm signing off now. Thank you for a wonderful, enlightening discussion.

Thank you.

Here is the latest example of a black person who cannot control themself engaging in deadly violence in the city I'm in right now...no wait...it's a couple of crackers in the whitest place on earth, the western suburbs of Minneapolis. The land of snowmobiles, bass boats, lifted 4x4 PU trucks and suburban tract housing. The subject is road rage and out of control gun violence in the USA, not black people problems. That dog won't hunt, as much as some of you would like to create a diversion.

Road rage shootings seem to be happening somewhere in the USA everyday right now. Everyday. Last month, it was a 3 year old killed in Orange County in his child seat, not a black person in sight. The fact that some of you and me are responsible gun owners is irrelevant. We have an epidemic of gun violence in this country.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/video/5761184-man-killed-in-apparent-plymouth-road-rage-incident-identified-as-jay-boughton/

+ a million, million.

Dude, you got 18670 posts. You are no mystery. LOLs! And more accusations! Because you know ME so well!

Just think where we would be if Higgins had spent as much time, effort and money fixing "the problem" as he has spent on fire arms. I don't understand why he has not since...ya know.. he cares so much.

The "two good parents" discussion is irrelevant, unless you have some idea of how to enforce some minimum parenting standard or other social norms. The rest of us live in the real world, as it actually is.

This is indeed a sensitive subject matter as you put it. You and black73 both landed some punches. However, I see black73 as someone equally passionate about this and I read into his, no gender implied!, posts at the core a plea to be "reaching out to help and understand" which I say includes reading and listening to stuff which is painful to hear when the source is someone with quite a different viewpoint or speaks in an "offensive" way to some.

So ... how about 30 min at 1.5x speed ? Still too much ? You can skip the part following the commercial in the middle.

I believe, and it's nothing more than that ... a belief, the speaker got it wrong mostly but it was eye opening to me if that makes any sense and I can totally see conversations like that happening in other communities and dinner tables with everyone in general agreement.

There is literally nothing accurate in the above post at all.
Seriously? It is even more full of crap than his typical post, which is really saying something.

go read this thread Florida woman misses flight Pretty much same subject matter, without the guns, so maybe a rational discussion could be had.