Why does America have the highest incarceration rate...

[recycled sixtie]

in the world? Try and keep this out of Parf.

[cabmandone]

Because we have a lot of crime?

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Because we have a lot of crime?

Or the perps get caught more than in less policed countries?

[KFC911]

We're a bunch of stoopid criminals breaking (sometimes stoopid) laws? Some get caught .... but most don't.

So far, so good

....and follow the $$$.

[URY914]

Do you have the answer and you're just testing us?

[Tervuren]

Uhm, how to talk about this without bringing up any matter of policy or anything anyone considers religion.

Hmmm.

I'll give it a go:

[tabs]

Slave labour...the US has lots of privatly run prisons as in for profit. Where they have prison factories that use convict labour.

[1990C4S]

Because of guns, drugs, and 'the war on drugs'. Beyond that it's parf...

[GH85Carrera]

Our Freedom.

We are free to make a lot of decisions in life. You are in life right now where you decided to be. Every single decision added together is why you are where you are. Decide to not brush your teeth, and now you have bad teeth, that is all on you. Decide to drive drunk, and get caught, that is on you. Decide going to not work on Monday morning because you have a hangover, that is your fault.

Lots of little decisions all through life take you down a path to where you are. Bad choices through life leads to prison.

Back in the early 1970s the Alabama prison system was taken over by the feds because of the horrid conditions. I was on a press team that toured the prison and I was shooting for Time Magazine. The sound of the large gate slamming shut with us on the inside of that place was enough to keep me on the honest side of the law. I was standing next to a State Trooper, and a prison guard and the rest of the press. The smells, and noise was bad enough, and the dining area smelled even worse. It was a place I never wanted to see again.

I still think they should put troubled teenagers in a cell by themselves in the middle of the place, and let them see hear and smell what prison is really like. Keep them safe form the inmates, but let them experience 24 hours of a real prison. Any sane person would want to avoid ever returning.

[svandamme]

1 Because you cannot win a war on drugs, repression of something in high demand will only serve to make it more profitable and as profitability goes up, so does the incentive to smuggle and the corruption goes up with it.

Portugal had a drug endemic, when they came out of their dictatorship...and it remained problematic till they decided to change it up and stop treating users as criminals but as patients..
The right wing balked at the idea , but when it was implemented , Portugal got it it under control, drug usage dropped, they have low Overdose death rates and drug related crime.
They have had several right wing governments since, but none of them even thought about overturning the socialist idea of helping the addicts instead of repressing and jailing them. That should tell you something.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

It does not work to work on the supply side if there's an endless demand.
Low Supply/ High Demand = High profit

Clearly the only way to deal with it, is to work on reducing the demand.

Listing drug busts in a monetary value also doesn't help, because it simply advertises "hey, this is good business"
The drug lords giggle a bit when they hear so much value was destroyed. because to them it means the stuff that DID get through became more valuable.

If anything the supply that got busted should be tested, certified, and sold for cheap on the street instead.
Now THAT would piss off the cartels big style
They would send their hitman over the border to shoot your politicians, and that's the obvious reason nobody does it.

2 If you make the incarceration a profitable business, then that as well opens up the way to corruption because well, those who make profit see no benefit in fixing the problem.
And obviously nobody has figured out to make a buck off social work, else that would be a way to fix the problem, but plenty people are making profit off incarceration, either through running the prisons or by providing related services.

Clearly that's part of the problem, because where you have profit, you will have lobbyists to sway politicians in sustaining that business.
I'm sure if the incarceration biz stands to be wiped out due to a change in policy.. the Capitalists behind it would probably help the Sicario's sent by the Cartel to help em schwack the politicians responsible

They both have a vested interest in keeping things running as they are.

I'm sure they,Cartel bosses and prison bosses a like, all vacation in the same resorts over in Europe, hang out with the Oligarchs and other big money scum


1&2 : Get the profit out of the equation and it goes away.

[masraum]

It would be curious to have more information/data on laws, crimes, reporting of crimes, arrests per crime, convictions per arrest, and percentage of convictions that result in prison vs other punishments in places like the UK, France, Germany, etc...

And then the other question is how thoroughly are stats reported from other countries.

I see lots of places for issues in these stats.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Our Freedom.

Sorry, 'freedom' is not a compelling argument. There are a myriad of countries with all the freedoms you list that do not have incarceration rates anywhere close to America.

Look at the 'reasons' people are in jail.

[Dantilla]

Hmmm.... Just thinking out loud....

I wonder if there is an element that the USA is such a melting pot of different cultures.
Humans are naturally somewhat tribal. We're proud of our heritage.

In France, almost everybody is French.
In Japan, nearly all are Japanese.
Yada, yada....

Yet here in America, everybody is kinda a minority. While the vast majority are Caucasian, there are differences between the Scandinavians, the British, the German, Russian, Italian, and other backgrounds.

Does this lead to more of an underlying "us vs. them" subconscious attitude?

Instead of a homogeneous culture where most simply get along and respect each other, do our different backgrounds create a subconscious mistrust of one another?

[1990C4S]

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Yet here in America, everybody is kinda a minority. While the vast majority are Caucasian, there are differences between the Scandinavians, the British, the German, Russian, Italian, and other backgrounds.

Does this lead to more of an underlying "us vs. them" subconscious attitude?

Instead of a homogeneous culture where most simply get along and respect each other, do our different backgrounds create a subconscious mistrust of one another?

That is the case in a LOT of big cities outside the USA.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by svandamme

1 Because you cannot win a war on drugs, repression of something in high demand will only serve to make it more profitable and as profitability goes up, so does the incentive to smuggle and the corruption goes up with it.

Portugal had a drug endemic, when they came out of their dictatorship...and it remained problematic till they decided to change it up and stop treating users as criminals but as patients..
The right wing balked at the idea , but when it was implemented , Portugal got it it under control, drug usage dropped, they have low Overdose death rates and drug related crime.
They have had several right wing governments since, but none of them even thought about overturning the socialist idea of helping the addicts instead of repressing and jailing them. That should tell you something.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

It does not work to work on the supply side if there's an endless demand.
Low Supply/ High Demand = High profit

Clearly the only way to deal with it, is to work on reducing the demand.

Listing drug busts in a monetary value also doesn't help, because it simply advertises "hey, this is good business"
The drug lords giggle a bit when they hear so much value was destroyed. because to them it means the stuff that DID get through became more valuable.

If anything the supply that got busted should be tested, certified, and sold for cheap on the street instead.
Now THAT would piss off the cartels big style
They would send their hitman over the border to shoot your politicians, and that's the obvious reason nobody does it.

2 If you make the incarceration a profitable business, then that as well opens up the way to corruption because well, those who make profit see no benefit in fixing the problem.
And obviously nobody has figured out to make a buck off social work, else that would be a way to fix the problem, but plenty people are making profit off incarceration, either through running the prisons or by providing related services.

Clearly that's part of the problem, because where you have profit, you will have lobbyists to sway politicians in sustaining that business.
I'm sure if the incarceration biz stands to be wiped out due to a change in policy.. the Capitalists behind it would probably help the Sicario's sent by the Cartel to help em schwack the politicians responsible

They both have a vested interest in keeping things running as they are.

I'm sure they,Cartel bosses and prison bosses a like, all vacation in the same resorts over in Europe, hang out with the Oligarchs and other big money scum


1&2 : Get the profit out of the equation and it goes away.

Bingo

[1990C4S]

Drugs are a big profitable business, for the sellers, and for the police.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by svandamme

And obviously nobody has figured out to make a buck off social work ...

Well, not quite nobody ...

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Our Freedom.

We are free to make a lot of decisions in life.

If we were so free to make decisions there wouldn't be so many of our decisions getting us thrown in prison. We aren't free to make decisions, that's why we get thrown in jail.

[manbridge 74]

Because most crimes seem to allow early release, time served is half or less, so its worth it. Even those in long term lock up for horrendous crimes are allowed to access internet or write their memoirs etc.

But not to worry. Laws are soon to be illegal/racist/inconvenient. In some areas they already are.