Physical Knobs and Switches, Please

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by red-beard

A touch screen is the worst way to control systems in a vehicle.

Unfortunately, it's also the cheapest.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Back around 1987, I drove a rental car with a digital speedometer. Horrible. And at the time, I was designing power plant operator interfaces for a computer control system. The only "analog" we had was a bar graph. It was better than nothing. Number and bar graph.

When I was in India doing the final checkout of one of the control systems, I worked with an old-time plant operator and we re-designed the displays to make it easier for a regular operator to use. Quick visual to see if everything is OK. In the old days, they would put pencil marks on the meters to show "nominal". I built those into the displays.

I sent the as built displays back to "Headquarters" to be used around the world. A couple of years later, I was over at the physical plant at Stanford U, and I re-worked a lot of the displays.

I miss having an analog voltmeter with a meter, instead of a digital readout. There are things you see in the dial movement that you don't get with a digital readout. I don't need voltage measurements to the hundredths, I want to know if voltage is fluctuating, or dirty.

The 'Analog' gauges in my truck are actually done digitally, with stepper motors.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by dad911

I miss having an analog voltmeter with a meter, instead of a digital readout. There are things you see in the dial movement that you don't get with a digital readout. I don't need voltage measurements to the hundredths, I want to know if voltage is fluctuating, or dirty.

The 'Analog' gauges in my truck are actually done digitally, with stepper motors.

I get "looks" whenever I'm working with a buddy and I pull out my old Simpson.

[john70t]

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by jyl

I wonder if industrial design will ever rediscover the simplicity of physical knobs and switches.

Like many of you, I play music on my computer while working, which requires me to increase and decrease the volume, as the tracks change and the phone rings, jerking me out of my total concentration on PPOT to scramble for the volume controls.

At first I would steer a tiny cursor to the tiny volume icon on my screen and execute a tricky sequence of clicks and drags, which I often got wrong, resulting in unwanted displays of my clock or DropBox folder or WiFi connections, or my volume flipping to max loud or being silenced entirely.

That sucked, so I remapped some keys on my keyboard so that Shift+PrtScrn is volume up and Ctrl+PrtScrn is volume down. That was better, but each volume changes still required a rapid-fire series of keypresses and usually ended in overshooting or undershooting the desired level, which invariably lies halfway between the two closest achievable levels.

Finally I gave in and sent Jeff Bezos $17, and he took time from exploring low earth orbit to send me a shiny physical dial on a little box. Plug a USB cord into the computer, and now all I do is move my left hand four inches and turn a knob without even looking.

What an innovation! How did people ever think of such a simple, intuitive, interface? It must be patented, no?

I get that modern stuff is very complicated and requires four layers of nested on-screen menus to control all the parameters and preferences, which while detestable are arguably preferable to hundreds of tiny buttons, sliders and dials. However, I think that when we operate most devices, 95% of our time is spent doing three or four things.

Which can be done with actual knobs and switches placed to fall naturally to hand and fingers.

I see expensive high-end cameras starting to move in this direction, but most consumer devices remain all about pecking at tiny buttons to cycle between modes and menus. Such as, ahem, car stereo head units.

What are you seeing? Are designers rediscovering the humble KNOB and forgotten SWITCH?

My new (2 years old) keyboard has a mute button and a roller to control the volume. Works great. It also has macros you can program for the F buttons or the set of M buttons and they are mechanical switches (not Cherry though).

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The newest car I have ever owned is my 1993 Land Cruiser, which I have owned for about ten years. Prior to that my 1972 911 was the newest car I had ever owned. My wife gets the new stuff, most recently Subarus. We are ready to get her a new one, as a matter of fact. The current one is just old enough to have analog gauges and tactile knobs and buttons.

Test driving the new ones, and any new car for that matter, has been a bit of a culture shock. With all of the emphasis on safety in new cars, I'm left gobsmacked by these touch screens. There is absolutely no way to perform even the most rudimentary of task, from adjusting the heat to tuning the radio without taking one's eyes off of the road, and for quite a long period of time while scrolling through the menus. Are you kidding me? How is it even legal to sell these things?

The hunt is now on for a new car with knobs and buttons. I'm getting afraid that we will not be able to find one.

Does she like minivans?

[pwd72s]

Back in the 70's, when smog laws had choked horsepower to unbelievably low levels, Smokey Unick said that when he lifted the hood of a car, it made him want to puke..

(edit) For the youngsters here who may have never heard of Smokey:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick

I feel the same when looking at today's dashes...todays kids love the big touchscreens and star trek dashes. I'm not in that demographic.

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by dad911

I miss having an analog voltmeter with a meter, instead of a digital readout. There are things you see in the dial movement that you don't get with a digital readout. I don't need voltage measurements to the hundredths, I want to know if voltage is fluctuating, or dirty.

The 'Analog' gauges in my truck are actually done digitally, with stepper motors.

Like this?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[island911]

^so cool ^

[HobieMarty]

Thanks, it belonged to my Stepfather, still works great.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Chocaholic]

Mike....I think Subaru is the worst of the bunch. My wife always wanted an Outback...they’re cute, dontchaknow. We bought her a new 2020 Touring model. 6 months later we took a bath and traded it in on another Honda. That touchscreen nanny stuff was absolutely infuriating for many of the reasons you mentioned.

A shame because I liked the car otherwise but couldn’t live with being yelled at by the car when my eyes looked to the side for a few seconds. Absolutely miserable. Supposedly 2019 and earlier were better. Especially the 3.6r (for different reasons).

I have a 2019 BMW 5 series and the i-Drive is great. Took no time to master and you never have to touch the screen. All controlled through a big knob that lives where your right hand resides. Imagine it took a few iterations to iron out the wrinkles.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Does she like minivans?

That's better! What is it? I do see a touch screen just out of view above, but it looks more like it's confined to the "infotainment" system. We could probably live with that.

She does absolutely need four wheel, or all wheel (I'm still not clear on the difference) drive. Not any kind of big lifted "bro dozer" so she can "roll coal", but definitely something like her Subaru Outback. She makes many trips per year over our Cascade Range to see her sisters and her mother on the other side of the state, and she has never let winter weather deter her in the least.

An AWD/4WD minivan might be something she would be interested in. We have a two year old grand daughter and another one due in about two weeks, and we will certainly need the ability to ferry them about, along with a whole shi... er, I mean "van" load of their stuff. A string of Outbacks got us through those years with our own two boys, but, well, boys seem to need less support equipment...

[Geronimo]

I am an industrial designer. Most of us like physical tactile interfaces, with fine details and a solid robust feel. But alas, product planning often has a heavy say in these matters.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

That's better! What is it? I do see a touch screen just out of view above, but it looks more like it's confined to the "infotainment" system. We could probably live with that.

She does absolutely need four wheel, or all wheel (I'm still not clear on the difference) drive. Not any kind of big lifted "bro dozer" so she can "roll coal", but definitely something like her Subaru Outback. She makes many trips per year over our Cascade Range to see her sisters and her mother on the other side of the state, and she has never let winter weather deter her in the least.

An AWD/4WD minivan might be something she would be interested in. We have a two year old grand daughter and another one due in about two weeks, and we will certainly need the ability to ferry them about, along with a whole shi... er, I mean "van" load of their stuff. A string of Outbacks got us through those years with our own two boys, but, well, boys seem to need less support equipment...

Chrysler Pacifica. You can get them in AWD but ours is not. The seat heat/vent and steering wheel heat are on the touch screen, but if is is cooler than 40* the seat and wheel heat comes on automatically. Above 80* the seat vent comes on automatically. We keep the tools and such in the second row stow area.

For climate control and radio the buttons work great. Some have issues adjusting to the dial shifter, but it takes up less room.

The best we got was 33mpg which can get you nearly 600 miles on a tank (our fill up showed 585 miles to empty)

More pics.

https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g34719506/2021-chrysler-pacifica-awd-by-the-numbers-gallery/?slide=12

[sammyg2]