Evil can never be dead enough - another good ending

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Why did he have to shoot him 15 times?

If anyone misunderstood my question i apologize. The correct answer is:

"Because I didn't have 16."

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by beatnavy

And I respect your opinion and probably would have shared it not too long ago. You've obviously seen horrible things. But I'm not naïve. I was in the Army, and I have been to war.

I'm just trying to take my (Catholic) faith more seriously as I get older, and that includes more charity for others and more humility for me.

Good, it is your humanity!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

Jeff, the "not like us" deal is absolutely true, and it begins to appear at a very early age. Anyone that spends a decent amount of time working in an urban middle school setting learns to spot the true "animals" with ease, and let me tell you, almost nothing is done about it except to shuffle them along, as you noted. I don't know what the answer is, but the steady and persistent softening of how we deal with the genuine beasts among us, including the budding beasts, is not working.

It is difficult to put an exact number on it, but for each year that I worked in Dallas ISD, out of an average of 100 students per year on my roster, at least five of them (sometimes more), per year, I could basically guarantee would grow to become thieves, murders and sexual predators - no joke.

Or, worse yet, MMA fans. There's just no helping some of them.

In all seriousness, though, I have only met one young man during my entire life that I thought I "recognized" as bound for this path. He had three completely normal sisters, all of whom are grown, married with children, and pursuing successful careers. This kid is now in his mid 20's. He has been in some form of incarceration almost continuously since his late adolescent years. There was just something about him, couldn't put my finger on it, but my wife saw it as well.

And this kid grew up in a "loving" household. Plenty of attention, from two parents. The whole "nature vs nurture" question gets asked a lot when we see people who turn out like this. Well, with this one, it was definitely "nature". I cannot imagine how bad he would be without the "nurture". I'm sure our perp in the video failed in both regards.

Originally Posted by tdw28210

I just hope NOBODY suggests that we start holding the parents accountable as these young citizens matriculate their way through the educational system and society at large. I mean the parent(s) are victims too, right? Can we REALLY expect them to take a proactive role to set a good example, nip poor and/or anti-social behavior in the bud and shield them from poisonous media? That sounds like it would consume a lot of their time, virtually every day. It's just much better for them to let the "professionals" in the school and law enforcement agencies figure it out. I personally would cringe at the idea of a parent standing before a judge while they are given punishment along side their felonious 12 year old.

^^that's in green if it isn't obvious.

I know you are being facetious, but let's go ahead and use what you said to add some perspective.

Your approach would work with what most of us consider "normal" parents, with parents that fit our paradigm of parenting. Parents who are taking an active interest in their children, or a somewhat active interest (I'm including a very broad spectrum in that). Parents who are still capable of being embarrassed by their children's behavior, and capable of being "punished" in some way along with them. Parents with something to lose, with some "skin in the game". Parents who more or less understand the score.

Well, this guy's parents ain't none of that. His dad (who is probably dead already as well) was just like him. I'm sure this guy had fathered many children, has no idea who and where any of them are - just like his dad. His mom is some exceedingly low IQ welfare rat who never once read to him - she neither knows how nor can be bothered to take the time. You could drag her in front of the criminal justice system (and I'm sure she is no stranger anyway) for her children's crimes, but she would have no understanding of what was happening, or why, or what to do about it.

These animals are physically equipped to make more of themselves, as they continue to demonstrate. They are not, however, intellectually equipped, nor emotionally equipped to raise them as modern society expects human children to be raised. It's a self perpetuating cycle that I'm not sure we, as the rest of society, have the emotional fortitude to break. We're doomed to having these violent animals living among us, as we continue to take half measures in dealing with them all the while pretending that if we just care enough they can be shown a path towards being "just like us". We will never acknowledge that there are those simply incapable of following that path.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by speeder

From a police tactical standpoint, if the injured deputy had been solo, he’d be dead..........................

Thank God for his partner. Thank God the perpetrator's gun jammed as both cops would be dead as him (perp) running around the back of the car was a surprise to both officers. (Maybe heavy window tint is not the best choice for squad cars)

Demonstrates how focused, Dirty Harry type thinking in a pinch, is movie stuff.

All of them, including the perpetrator, were all over the map.

Side note, I am very glad the MFPOS is dead.

[rfuerst911sc]

This guy was a POS . He's been a POS for a long time . He made choices to become and maintain being a POS . The world is a better place because this POS is gone . I have zero remorse or sympathy . Sorry .

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Why did he have to shoot him 15 times?

Originally Posted by Gogar

If anyone misunderstood my question i apologize. The correct answer is:

"Because I didn't have 16."

Kinda like "what do you feel when you shoot someone?"......"the recoil".

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Why did he have to shoot him 15 times?

Because "evil can never be dead enough"

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by beatnavy

And I respect your opinion and probably would have shared it not too long ago. You've obviously seen horrible things. But I'm not naïve. I was in the Army, and I have been to war.

I'm just trying to take my (Catholic) faith more seriously as I get older, and that includes more charity for others and more humility for me.

Luke 22:35-38

Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. (bold added by me)

I understand why some say the end of a life is tragic. Indeed the greatest tragedy is that (most likely) the felon is spending eternity in Hell (although we don't know for sure). That is tragic.

I also know that God is a God of justice and the Bible says in Gal 6:7

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

The man is dead because of his actions and choices. He condemned himself to death when he chose to shoot at the officers. To that end, I am OK with justice being served. I know that ultimately justice will be served in eternity at the Judgement Seat of Christ but there is something comforting to see it served now before more innocent lives are harmed or destroyed.

[beatnavy]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Luke 22:35-38
The man is dead because of his actions and choices. He condemned himself to death when he chose to shoot at the officers. To that end, I am OK with justice being served. I know that ultimately justice will be served in eternity at the Judgement Seat of Christ but there is something comforting to see it served now before more innocent lives are harmed or destroyed.

Well said, and no argument from me on any of this, Joe.

If anybody here thinks I don't think he brought it on himself, or that he didn't deserve to be shot for his actions, misunderstands me.

[dheinz]

What happened to "three strikes and you're out" laws?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by dheinz

What happened to "three strikes and you're out" laws?

I believe many have been stricken from the books. Here in Washington, our Governor commuted many life sentences that had been handed out under our "three strikes" law, deeming them to be unnecessarily harsh and, well, "racist". It would be interesting to track these "over achievers" after their release, just to see how much they may have contributed to society.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Or, worse yet, MMA fans. There's just no helping some of them.

In all seriousness, though, I have only met one young man during my entire life that I thought I "recognized" as bound for this path. He had three completely normal sisters, all of whom are grown, married with children, and pursuing successful careers. This kid is now in his mid 20's. He has been in some form of incarceration almost continuously since his late adolescent years. There was just something about him, couldn't put my finger on it, but my wife saw it as well.

And this kid grew up in a "loving" household. Plenty of attention, from two parents. The whole "nature vs nurture" question gets asked a lot when we see people who turn out like this. Well, with this one, it was definitely "nature". I cannot imagine how bad he would be without the "nurture". I'm sure our perp in the video failed in both regards.

. . . .

Yes, MMA fans should be locked under the jails, and/or battered about the head and shoulders with 2X4s on a regular schedule - helpless and hopeless, one and all!

The nature 'v' nurture is always interesting, as like you note above, there are plenty of examples where a beast develops despite the best nurturing possible, and many kids come out alright without traditional nurturing, but yep, those that have bot against them are real problems.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I know you are being facetious, but let's go ahead and use what you said to add some perspective.

Your approach would work with what most of us consider "normal" parents, with parents that fit our paradigm of parenting. Parents who are taking an active interest in their children, or a somewhat active interest (I'm including a very broad spectrum in that). Parents who are still capable of being embarrassed by their children's behavior, and capable of being "punished" in some way along with them. Parents with something to lose, with some "skin in the game". Parents who more or less understand the score.

Well, this guy's parents ain't none of that. His dad (who is probably dead already as well) was just like him. I'm sure this guy had fathered many children, has no idea who and where any of them are - just like his dad. His mom is some exceedingly low IQ welfare rat who never once read to him - she neither knows how nor can be bothered to take the time. You could drag her in front of the criminal justice system (and I'm sure she is no stranger anyway) for her children's crimes, but she would have no understanding of what was happening, or why, or what to do about it.

These animals are physically equipped to make more of themselves, as they continue to demonstrate. They are not, however, intellectually equipped, nor emotionally equipped to raise them as modern society expects human children to be raised. It's a self perpetuating cycle that I'm not sure we, as the rest of society, have the emotional fortitude to break. We're doomed to having these violent animals living among us, as we continue to take half measures in dealing with them all the while pretending that if we just care enough they can be shown a path towards being "just like us". We will never acknowledge that there are those simply incapable of following that path.

Jeff, not going to spend a bunch of time writing up the "why", but I don;t agree with your first point and some of your observations. And regarding your later points; anyone paying attention knows the real reasons why the cycle seems "unbreakable".

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

Jeff, not going to spend a bunch of time writing up the "why", but I don;t agree with your first point and some of your observations. And regarding your later points; anyone paying attention knows the real reasons why the cycle seems "unbreakable".

If that were true then there'd be at the very least a concomitant effort to address those reasons, and those of us actually paying attention don't see that happening.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

If that were true then there'd be at the very least a concomitant effort to address those reasons, and those of us paying attention don't see that happening.

Obviously it's not happening. But why? Is it because it is truly unbreakable or are there other reasons we never seem to make progress?

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

Obviously it's not happening. But why? Is it because it is truly unbreakable or are there other reasons we never seem to make progress?

That my friend would make for an interesting dialogue with cocktails. As it stands though the various explanations depend upon ones PoV. One group could argue that those caught in the "cycle" aren't taking responsibility for pulling themselves out of it. Another group could argue that those same people don't have the opportunities necessary to end the cycle. Still another arguing that those in that group are actually permanently incapable of getting out due to generations of hopelessness.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by dheinz

What happened to "three strikes and you're out" laws?

The same thing that happened to enforcing most laws. Democrats.

[svandamme]

those deputies are very lucky the perp was an incompetent gunman and that his gun jammed.

Had he been half capable, he would have shot the cop opening the door through the window.
And the other one would have been in trouble as well on his own with 3 perps around

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

Jeff, not going to spend a bunch of time writing up the "why", but I don;t agree with your first point and some of your observations. And regarding your later points; anyone paying attention knows the real reasons why the cycle seems "unbreakable".

Please - enlighten us. What are these "real reasons"? I'm genuinely curious, and I suspect many others here are as well.

And yes, absolutely - please disagree with me. I'm not sure I agree with me. But if you are going to do that, I feel you should tell me why, so we have something to discuss. Present your position, countering mine, support it the best you can, and maybe you will find out I then agree with you. I would like to have a back and forth discussion. I'm actually pretty easily swayed by well presented, well reasoned arguments. Let's hear some.

Short of that, your reply comes across as somewhat arrogant and haughty - you "know better", and anyone really paying attention (like you) should as well. Well, maybe I'm not really paying attention (I admittedly do not spend a lot of time on things like this), and maybe I missed something. Or a lot of somethings. Wouldn't be the first time. So, I would really appreciate hearing your take on all of this. I'll probably learn something.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Yes, MMA fans should be locked under the jails, and/or battered about the head and shoulders with 2X4s on a regular schedule - helpless and hopeless, one and all!

We could even pipe in some Russian b***tches screaming out some death metal. That oughta learn 'em...

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

The nature 'v' nurture is always interesting, as like you note above, there are plenty of examples where a beast develops despite the best nurturing possible, and many kids come out alright without traditional nurturing, but yep, those that have bot against them are real problems.

Agreed. I have to add that I think "nature" is the more powerful of the two. We see many cases where "nature" powered some really disadvantaged kids out of the very worst schitthole ghettos imaginable. We see plenty of examples of where "nature" could not be overcome even by living the most privileged lives imaginable. Sub-human animals have come out of both environments, as have some of the best of the best mankind has ever seen. Nature finds a way past nurture, for better or worse in some cases.