Query: Power conditioning...UPS

[flatbutt]

I run a pellet stove all winter. It uses several motors 1) a feed motor 2 combustion blower 3 distribution blower.

The distribution blower is the loudest of the 3 and every so often I can hear the pitch of that blower change. It definitely slows down as though there is a brief "brown out" but I don't see lights flicker or go dim.

So, I'm thinking maybe another blower is momentarily drawing more than usual for some reason and causing blower 3 to dip.

Would some kind of power leveler help with this?

TIA

[techman1]

Does the distribution blower connect to a manifold that distributes heated air? Is there an automatic damper for distribution?
Does the change coincide with a door opening or closing elsewhere in the house?

Where am I going is- is there a random increase or decrease in back pressure that causes this?

[Gogar]

FB I wonder if you're describing a problem that isn't actually a problem?

Anyway, a ups wouldn't help. If anything, the motor kicking in would trip the ups and make more trouble for you.

[red-beard]

Is the feed wire to the system too small?

[flatbutt]

All good questions. I think my ignorance is the problem. I also didn't know that the UPS could make it worse. Thanks

[red-beard]

You have to look at the UPS rating. Also, most UPS units are not designed to last more than 15 minutes. The batteries are tiny.

Do you have the specs on the motors, etc.? I can point you in the right direction on rolling your own system but they are not cheap.

~$800 for the inverter and then $600 per battery. Not sure what the draw is for your pellet stove.

[stevej37]

I have a quartz floor standing heater that is used in a section of the house that needs more heat.
It's been running every winter for the past 10 years faithfully.
The other day, I noticed that the fan inside the unit was running fast, then slow, back and forth.

I decided to open it up to see if I could find the problem.
I did...a 6X6 air filter with an inch of dust all over it. Cleaned it...problem fixed.

[HaroldMHedge]

Instead of a UPS unit, I believe you want a voltage regulator. Check to make sure the unit can supply enough power with a reserve (amps).

I've used these to stabilize voltages for electronic equipment but not motors.

[GH85Carrera]

Check to see if that motor is large enough to warrant a start up capacitor like AC condensers have. If it has one, it might be dead or weak. Just a wild ass guess. It will depend on how big the fan is.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by Gogar

FB I wonder if you're describing a problem that isn't actually a problem?

Anyway, a ups wouldn't help. If anything, the motor kicking in would trip the ups and make more trouble for you.

agree.
look at the current rating of the motors. make sure the wire size and breaker size are proper. make sure the connections are good.
"if" they can run on 240, you could consider changing but that would require house wiring change.
you may consider putting an amp meter on the line to verify the current. check the voltage. use a meter that records highs and lows as it may be to fast. a motor could be going bad. also see if you see a dip in current when you here the change.
is there any other large current draw in the house that turns on and off.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by HaroldMHedge

Instead of a UPS unit, I believe you want a voltage regulator. Check to make sure the unit can supply enough power with a reserve (amps).

I've used these to stabilize voltages for electronic equipment but not motors.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Check to see if that motor is large enough to warrant a start up capacitor like AC condensers have. If it has one, it might be dead or weak. Just a wild ass guess. It will depend on how big the fan is.

Originally Posted by T77911S

agree.
look at the current rating of the motors. make sure the wire size and breaker size are proper. make sure the connections are good.
"if" they can run on 240, you could consider changing but that would require house wiring change.
you may consider putting an amp meter on the line to verify the current. check the voltage. use a meter that records highs and lows as it may be to fast. a motor could be going bad. also see if you see a dip in current when you here the change.
is there any other large current draw in the house that turns on and off.

I have homework....thanks guys.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Also, most UPS units are not designed to last more than 15 minutes. The batteries are tiny.

I think he is thinking a pass through.

With some UPS's, usually you find in data centers or whole building where clean power is critical, you are always running off the UPS which is providing clean conditioned power on the output side and the utility side keeps the batteries topped off.

One day I will regale you with the tale of a corporate HQ that had a bus size UPS which fed the building and how a worker took a ceiling tile down and placed it on top of the cooling fan which would have the obvious effect of causing it to overheat which in itself would not have been terrible had someone not forgotten to plug the UPS's modem line in preventing it from sending status alerts to the IT staff until it eventually gave up at 3 am and tripped itself to prevent it from burning itself up bringing down everything including the global WAN.

Fun times

[flatbutt]

yeah, my vocabulary is lacking.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

When an AC motor starts there is an inrush current that causes low voltage in the whole system. In a piece of equipment with multiple motors , the voltage is usually transformed to a lower voltage to mitigate. 240/120, 480/120, etc.
With all due respect; The electrical design determines the "power leveler" capability of a piece of equipment.

[T77911S]

most UPS are not true UPS in that the load is always on commercial power and it only switches when it senses a drop in input power.
you would have to know the current, watts or Kva to determine the size of UPS needed, if it would do any good or be worth it. most UPS are in watts. I hate KVa.
not sure how long this apparent drop in fan speed last and is the drop and issue or is just that you are hearing it.

we have a couple of UPS at work that always go off when the building is on EG and someone uses the elevator.

I was having issues at my house when I first bought it. I was seeing lights dim when the AC turned on. I think it turned out to be a bad connection on the return in meter base (don't remember for sure but it was a bad connection)

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by T77911S

most UPS are not true UPS in that the load is always on commercial power and it only switches when it senses a drop in input power.
you would have to know the current, watts or Kva to determine the size of UPS needed, if it would do any good or be worth it. most UPS are in watts. I hate KVa.
not sure how long this apparent drop in fan speed last and is the drop and issue or is just that you are hearing it.

we have a couple of UPS at work that always go off when the building is on EG and someone uses the elevator.

I was having issues at my house when I first bought it. I was seeing lights dim when the AC turned on. I think it turned out to be a bad connection on the return in meter base (don't remember for sure but it was a bad connection)

hmmmm

[T77911S]

that was when my HVAC turned on. the lights might dim a little.

I don't know how much power those fans are pulling but I am imaging them not being that big, could be wrong

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I think he is thinking a pass through.

With some UPS's, usually you find in data centers or whole building where clean power is critical, you are always running off the UPS which is providing clean conditioned power on the output side and the utility side keeps the batteries topped off.

One day I will regale you with the tale of a corporate HQ that had a bus size UPS which fed the building and how a worker took a ceiling tile down and placed it on top of the cooling fan which would have the obvious effect of causing it to overheat which in itself would not have been terrible had someone not forgotten to plug the UPS's modem line in preventing it from sending status alerts to the IT staff until it eventually gave up at 3 am and tripped itself to prevent it from burning itself up bringing down everything including the global WAN.

Fun times

I could tell you the tale of the start of a Micro-vax in India on Indian Line Current, with only a refrigerator type power conditioning unit.

I was a 23 year old, still wet behind the ear Field Engineer starting up a Heat Recovery addition to a power plant in a chemical refinery in India.

My customer was in a hurry because they had scheduled the people from DEC to be on site, and this was about a week or so before I arrived. The UPS was not working so they decided to bypass the UPS. Needless to say at the time, Indian line current was pretty unstable. Most appliances were designed to work with 90VAC to 400VAC. I never saw it any worse than about 150VAC to 300VAC.

They fired it up and fried the main CPU unit. That was about $10K worth of computer part at the time (1988). Never let the magic smoke out. Never.

I arrived on site and of course, it didn't work. DEC diagnosed it Main CPU board. No, there is not a replacement in India. And the customer did not buy the spare parts package. Of course. And all of the software for the power plant's DCS (Distributed Control System) could only be uploaded from the Micro-Vax. (I Later figured a way around that, but that is another story).

The project staff in Schenectady were able to get a Main CPU card from DEC, but there was no way to get it to India. This needed to be a "hand carry", part, meaning someone is given a Business Class Ticket and this is the luggage. Unfortunately, no one was going to India.

I get back to the hotel and there is a message waiting that they have the card. The Project Manager is coming to India, but he would not wait for the card. The guy on the phone said he was going to Cario. He asked me if I could meet him there. Hmmm. Maybe. I think about it and ask him where he is transiting through Europe. Paris. OK, I'll meet him in Paris.

Next morning, I fly to Bombay (it wasn't Mumbai back then). France was being France and I needed a VISA to go to France. Yes, they were pissed off at the USA visa requirements and they put up a Visa requirement for the USA. That screwed the tourist industry, so they later dropped it.

I drive to the consulate. "Sorry, the Consul has gone home with his mistress and is not expected back today". Yes, the guy said mistress. So, no visa. Screw it. I'll see if I can get a Visa at the Airport in Paris.

I fly on Gulf Air and we stop at almost every airport on the Persian Gulf. Great stewardesses. They loved me! They were all English and I was one of the few non-Arabs on the flight. And they gave me a complimentary upgrade to First Class on the leg to Paris.

ANYWAY...I get into Paris. The guy I'm meeting has the card. But he took it out of the box? Why? To fit it in his briefcase. I don't have one. I look around duty free and buy one. 140 Francs, at 7 to 1, OK? $20 for the briefcase. Got it. All set.

Now to go to Paris. Nope. "Sir, you do not have a Visa?" "No. I tried in Bombay, but the Consul went home early with his mistress." That got me a smile, but no entry into Paris. I walked to the Pan-Am Clipper Club and discovered that the English language sounds best when spoken by a beautiful Parisian woman. Chills.

I booked a flight to London (screw you French) and spent the weekend with my Aunt and Uncle. Flew back to Bombay on Monday (On Pan-Am!). And then traveled back to site.

They did get the UPS working and we installed the CPU card. All good. Until....

Remember the briefcase? The 140 Franc briefcase? Yeah, well it was 1400 Francs...I had to enter an expense account for a $200 briefcase. It was "Duty Free" so, at least no sales tax...

All that money and time spent because someone skipped the power conditioning.

Round Trip tickets were about $1400. Hotel in London about $200/night. I ate at my aunt's, so almost no meal expenses. $400 briefcase. About $2000 in 1988. And about 5 days of my time.