Adhering sheet metal without Welding?

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Got to have gas, be it argon or co2, or a mix. And as mentioned do lots of practice on thin metal and look at lots of youtubes on the subject. And once the machine is setup right you'll be fine

yeah except for the paint... The heat will kill your paint. Can't you just grind the damaged paint off and rattlecan something close?

I use centra-shield s-6 wire (0.23) which is ER70S-6. Compared to the rusty unknown stuff that came in my used mig the s6 is magic. I can weld through rust and paint. It scrubs the surface clean and boils the impurities to the edge. Shockingly good. So long as I flow gas while it cools I up with shiny beads (above was with the old nasty wire). I need to weld-thru-metal primer the beads in minutes though or they'll oxidize.

[A930Rocket]

Update. The 3M panel adhesive was not to be found in town. I did get my Argon CO tank swapped out and a roll of .023 wire, so tomorrow I will start practicing on some 22 gauge sheet metal I bought and go from there.

I also stopped by the auto body supply shop to pick up some supplies and they mixed up a couple cans of the matching paint. Hopefully, I will only be painting around the edges of the wheel arches...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

good luck!

[A930Rocket]

Thanks. I’m gonna need it!

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Update. The 3M panel adhesive was not to be found in town. I did get my Argon CO tank swapped out and a roll of .023 wire, so tomorrow I will start practicing on some 22 gauge sheet metal I bought and go from there.

I also stopped by the auto body supply shop to pick up some supplies and they mixed up a couple cans of the matching paint. Hopefully, I will only be painting around the edges of the wheel arches...

A word of advice: when you drop down to .023 wire you should change out the torch lead liner to .025. You can weld with the likely .035 liner you have, but not very well continuously UNLESS every setting is perfect. Otherwise the welding wire can start recoiling in the liner as it bounces off the weld puddle exacerbating the problem. You'll go crazy looking for the sweet spot because it becomes very evasive.

Same thing with hose angle. Don't get all up and weird with your angle. If you have to place the welder behind you to have a relatively straight lead, then do it. The wire doesn't like to go round in circles rubbing the liner, especially if the liner is too large for the gauge you are using.

Stay loose my friend.

[gacook]

https://www.amazon.com/alien-tape/s?k=alien+tape

[beran earms]

Zeke is spot on about the liner, it can still be used , carefully, but you most definitely need the proper contact tip to match the wire. Good and clean and .023 will get it done.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Zeke

A word of advice: when you drop down to .023 wire you should change out the torch lead liner to .025. You can weld with the likely .035 liner you have, but not very well continuously UNLESS every setting is perfect. Otherwise the welding wire can start recoiling in the liner as it bounces off the weld puddle exacerbating the problem. You'll go crazy looking for the sweet spot because it becomes very evasive.

Same thing with hose angle. Don't get all up and weird with your angle. If you have to place the welder behind you to have a relatively straight lead, then do it. The wire doesn't like to go round in circles rubbing the liner, especially if the liner is too large for the gauge you are using.

Stay loose my friend.

Good advice. Also my Miller 135 has a flippable feed roller with 2 grooves for thick and thin wire. Check to see what yours has.

[A930Rocket]

Great advice, guys. Thanks.

I have a pack of new tips for the .025 wire, so I should be good there. The feed wheel is adjustable has different wheels. I’ll have to check the size and tension.

Zeke, thanks for the information on the lead. My welder is on a cart, that I can move around as needed.

[zakthor]

Yay! Now you'll be able to hammer on it if it gets dented.

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I was working on my 330 track car today and I wanted to roll the rear fenders for wider tires. The fender roller didn’t work, due to the two layers of sheet metal, so then I moved to the BFH.

The hammer worked to an extent, but I could not get it as flat as I wanted. So, I came up with the great idea to use my cut off wheel to cut back the inner wheel lip and flatten it with the hammer, then weld it.

It worked good until the welding part. I totally botched it up, burned some holes in the inner fender and could not get the two pieces to weld. My Mig welding skills obviously suck.

Being a track car, looks don’t matter to a degree. Is there some kind of automotive adhesive that I can squirt in between the two pieces of metal to adhere them and fill in any holes?

Once I am finished, I will use seam sealer or under coating to cover everything.

Right now, JB Weld is high on my list.��

Edit: with hindsight 2020, the other side worked like a champ, because I left a little more metal to work with. I was able to fold it over the inner fender.

Depending on year and generation your 330 has a bonded outer quarter panel to wheelhouse. The structural adhesive is between the hem flange and wheelhouse. Its not going to weld in this lifetime because you wont get penetration from one piece of sheet metal through to the other.

You will not re-bond it because that would require peeling the panel apart, separating it far enough to get a mixer nozzle in between the two while you squirt adhesive in the middle of the sandwich.

The adhesive used is very strong but beating it out with the big hammer can break the bond pretty easily which appears to have happened.

The adhesive the factory used was Beta-Mate. You can purchase it through the dealer for an arm and youngest child. Other structural panel adhesive can be used from Lord Fusor or 3m.

What are your options? A series of tacks or stitch welds at the hem flange every couple of inches to the wheelhouse would be the easiest way. It will pop and sputter but can be done with minimal work and good welding skills. It wont require a bead or continuous weld, just tacks or stitches linking the two panels. Area has to be clean with any coatings removed. On a race car panel to panel integrity is all you need. Grind and dress the welds and put some primer over it, maybe some urethane under seal and go race it.

[Bill Douglas]

A good place to research it is on autobody101 in the welding forum https://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Depending on year and generation your 330 has a bonded outer quarter panel to wheelhouse. The structural adhesive is between the hem flange and wheelhouse. Its not going to weld in this lifetime because you wont get penetration from one piece of sheet metal through to the other.

You will not re-bond it because that would require peeling the panel apart, separating it far enough to get a mixer nozzle in between the two while you squirt adhesive in the middle of the sandwich.

The adhesive used is very strong but beating it out with the big hammer can break the bond pretty easily which appears to have happened.

The adhesive the factory used was Beta-Mate. You can purchase it through the dealer for an arm and youngest child. Other structural panel adhesive can be used from Lord Fusor or 3m.

What are your options? A series of tacks or stitch welds at the hem flange every couple of inches to the wheelhouse would be the easiest way. It will pop and sputter but can be done with minimal work and good welding skills. It wont require a bead or continuous weld, just tacks or stitches linking the two panels. Area has to be clean with any coatings removed. On a race car panel to panel integrity is all you need. Grind and dress the welds and put some primer over it, maybe some urethane under seal and go race it.

Unless they used both, the portion I cut off was spot welded.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

A good place to research it is on autobody101 in the welding forum https://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

I was watching YouTube on welding tips, and it looked so easy. Today is practice day.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Just as important as wire size and speed and voltage is getting your helmet set correctly, at least for me. You can't weld what you can't see. Adjusting the helmet is key to seeing what you are doing and doing it comfortably.

[flatbutt]

Threads like this humble me...that's the nice way of saying I feel terribly ignorant.

[wilnj]

If welding doesn’t do the trick, how about rivets? Would give you a vintage aircraft look.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I was watching YouTube on welding tips, and it looked so easy. Today is practice day.

Yeah, that's so unfair LOL

Another thing while practicing. Listen for the right sound. Not sharp crackling sound, but rather a smoother (hard to explain) hum.

Haha, practice and a bit more practice on bits of test sheet metal then destructive testing in a vice and pliers.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Yeah, that's so unfair LOL

Another thing while practicing. Listen for the right sound. Not sharp crackling sound, but rather a smoother (hard to explain) hum.

Haha, practice and a bit more practice on bits of test sheet metal then destructive testing in a vice and pliers.

I did about an hour of practice and was following the YouTube videos, which mentioned the sound.

I tried different wire speed and heat. Some places not enough heat, some places too much heat or too long in one place. I was getting to the point where I could do spot welds in a row half way decent. My practice sheet metal is 22 gauge, and I suspect the car I have thinner material. At least where I’ve sanded it down.

Here’s a few practice welds.

[A930Rocket]

Follow up: everything is back together. Unfortunately, after going for a drive, I’m going to need to push them out another half inch or so, as the tires rubs the fender lips just barely.

Stay tuned for next weekend…