Formal dinners on a cruise is a throw back to first class dining when a cruise was a form of travel not the destination.

Us second or third classers didn't wear ties to dinner on board in those days. Most of my life I was third class or at least treated that way, maybe I have made it to second class? I am Jack and I know it. But I am OK putting on the formal attire and following the traditions even as people look down at me. I enjoy dress well and wearing a tie. It just makes you feel better. I own my own tux and can tie a bow tie.

I don't wear hats, but if I did I would remove it when entering a building because it is the proper thing to do and so not to offend anyone, I guess for me it is the same reason I wipe my feet before entering someone's home, holding a door for another person, turning and covering my face when I sneeze, Holding a ladies chair at the table and pushing it in, chewing my food with my mouth closed, placing a napkin on my lap, not burping so the whole room can hear it or farting in public. I dropping the ladies off at the door and then parking the car, I help the elderly when ever possible and let cars in in front of me.

It certainly seems kind, courteous, mannerly and gentlemanly and really what does it hurt?

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i didnt say i disdain matters.

i said in church, wearing a hat or not is irrelevant.

every social space has social norms. hat in church is a dumb one to get your panties in a bunch over. if we want to talk about what social norms should be, thats a different subject entirely. however, the thread is a grown man being mad about a stranger wearing a hat.

The issue of the thread is about a man wearing a hat in a venue regardless of what it is being offended because he was wearing a hat "against social norms" of the venue. It may be dumb but it is the social norm. The person getting his panties in a twist is the guy wearing the hat because he was asked to remove the hat to comply with the "social norm". Getting his panties in a twist over that is pretty dumb. He should just leave.

If you want to talk about what social norms should be, thats a different subject entirely.

Having been born into very middle class society, I have never been to the high social events as a guest. I have been to a few as a photographer. I was just the hired help, and I was in a suit and tie, but I have never worn a tux, I doubt I ever will.

I sure have never been invited to a party or even that is black tie mandatory. On the cruise we took to most of the Hawaiian islands one couple rented an entire second cabin just for their clothes. Evidently they liked playing dress-up. They were were in different clothes at ever venue. I am sure they loved it, but that would be sheer hell for me.

I'd guess that those who are dismissing norms here would also attend a job interview or a romantic first date with their hair combed. Silly norm that it is. And so....this is really not a question of whether they respect norms. It is a question of how they discriminate between them. Accept some. Dismiss others as "silly." And thinking this makes them look smart.

Why anybody would aspire to be average, as opposed to being better tomorrow than they are today, is something I’ll never understand.

I’m disappointed in some of the replies here but not surprised. Some people just don’t get it.

Totally agree^^, but also understand the somewhat disrespectful perception of a hat indoors, especially in a church.

Lets take fashion statement out of the conversation.

Most of you on this forum had somewhat of a normal/ supportive upbringing. This young man could have had zero guidance as a child/ young man. If you don't have a supportive family or even friends, embracing some type of religion or church may be the first step of trying to make yourself better or at least find some type of guidance.

Perhaps the lesson here- for all of us:, if what you witnessed bothered you so much to post on PP, what are you doing to make it better? Did you make the young man feel welcomed- or did he feel judged???

Did you introduce yourself after services to him?
Did you arrange to meet with him for coffee or lunch to learn his story?
What if what he had on his back were perhaps" the best clothes" he had?

We are to love all, not just the easy ones to love.

the thread is a man having his feelings hurt because a man wore a hat in church.

it sounds like you are having a lot of feelings about that.

i can tell you want doesn't look smart, writing a page long post on a random internet forum complaining that someone wore a hat in church.

oh the humanity

No, I don't think that's what this is. The current topic of this thread is about how much smarter and tougher some folks are because they imagine others to be getting their feelings hurt and failing to notice the idiocy of manners and decorum.

I'm at a nat'l lab with physicists that wear neither long pants or shoes most days and by golly, if they're in a meeting with someone having one or more stars on their shoulder, even they're in a suit. There's heck to pay if word gets back that you were under dressed yet you knew better.

HOWEVER... A suit does not make a gentleman. I've been around many people in suits that met absolutely none of those standards beyond knowing how to tie their shoes.

try reading the first post.

A man had his feelings hurt because he was wearing a hat "against social norms" (your statement).

It sounds like you have an issue with that.

Should I go find that pic of you in a dress at the OCF :D?

I am smarter than the average idiot or average Mensa member... I just happen to look stoopid ;).

Not sure why this thread has devolved into an argument. I just avoid places where I may be judged for my dickes shorts and vans. If I do get judged, oh well.

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You must be new here ... it's what we do :D

To sumarize this thread ....

Wearing jeans to church is just fine (setting a new normal), but not removing a ball cap when entering a Home Depot is very disrespectful and shows a lack of manners and poor upbringing. Now we can move on.... mebbe ;).

Next argument please :D....

Thanks, but I still remember it from the first time I read it. ;)

It's a classic. And it so happens that my outfit was respectful of the local culture and customs. :)

Yeah, that's the part I don't get too. Sure, we argue here. But it just stuns me that people would come here to announce their disdain for manners and decorum. If I started a thread, do you suppose they might boast of their poor hygiene too? Maybe they're not very in bed either, and want to tell people.

Should I form a positive impression of someone because they consider manners and decorum to be silly? Most people want to be regarded positively, or so I thought.

Is wearing jeans to church acceptable (now)?

I don't think I have EVER seen a man remove their cap entering a Home Depot.

True story.... circa 1970. My dad had a retired preacher friend who had never been to the coast, so dad decided to take him and off they went. But as dad tells it, he drew the line when "Brother Embler" was going to walk out the long fishing pier still wearing his tie... so off it came ;).

Times and mores change...

I can almost guarantee that some of the older ladies were just as agast over the OP's jeans as he was about the cap.

I think that's the point most are trying to make here....

Matthew 7:1

I wasn't always a heathen :D

no, i said no one cares. and was quickly told that everyone cares.

did you even read the thread? lol