China 737 crash

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

He was being tongue-in-cheek.

There are no AB's on any current airliners.

Correct. Pilot was just hauling a*s to get to the destination asap.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by 911/914gary

Exactly. Hopefully the DFDR (digital flight deck recorder) data is available. This would yield some audio information that could give an indication of what the flight crew was experiencing.

the DFDR, or digital flight data recorder, is not an audio unit, that is the CVR, or cockpit voice recorder.

The DFDR records other parameters like flight control position, aircraft attitude, engine power, speed etc.

[drcoastline]

Why is the "black box" in a plane at this point? Every crash they wonder if the data is recoverable. With current technology you think that data would be transmitted someplace or to the cloud.

[gordner]

Just not practical with the amount of data required I think. Transmitting data from an airplane costs, and isn't always possible anyways, depending where they are.

To give you an idea, we had a client choose to watch a live stream of the superbowl in flight aboard an internet equipped falcon 900. That bill was 92 000 USD.

[Steve Carlton]

I really really wanted to see that game live.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

More like a 7xx mph to zero impact.

Flew LaGuardia to Cleveland once in a 737. Massive tail wind and flight was super late and it had the after burners on. Heard pilots talking to each other saying they/we were close to Mach 1 ground speed when we departed the jet in Cle. And that was without gravity assist.

Even if 7xx mph were achievable straight down (ground speed = zero) and afterburner non-sense aside, not sure the wings would stay attached for long. If full power straight down and wings peeled off, the fuselage would also slow as propulsion would depart with 737 wings. Unfortunately, 1xx, 2xx, 3xx...7xx straight down all end the same for passengers.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Why is the "black box" in a plane at this point? Every crash they wonder if the data is recoverable. With current technology you think that data would be transmitted someplace or to the cloud.

Depends on the airplane… Most airplanes have data storage capabilities that can be downloaded after they land, and some have that feature where a lot of parameters are itransmitted live but it’s usually FOQA data and not specific flight control data.


My first guess is suicide, my second guess would be some type of scab trim malfunction.

[911/914gary]

Originally Posted by gordner

the DFDR, or digital flight data recorder, is not an audio unit, that is the CVR, or cockpit voice recorder.

The DFDR records other parameters like flight control position, aircraft attitude, engine power, speed etc.

That's right, the DFDR records flight crew inputs, but I thought the CVR was a component of the this. Not all aircraft have CVR's. Does the if the NG this?

[rattlsnak]

Modern airline transport category planes have both.

[911/914gary]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Modern airline transport category planes have both.

The NG came out in 1997. Don't know if that was required for C of A then.

Never mind. Per the Aviation Herald this did have the CVR and it was recovered.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Even if 7xx mph were achievable straight down (ground speed = zero) and afterburner non-sense aside, not sure the wings would stay attached for long. If full power straight down and wings peeled off, the fuselage would also slow as propulsion would depart with 737 wings. Unfortunately, 1xx, 2xx, 3xx...7xx straight down all end the same for passengers.

Not sure when wings would rip off. The A380 can fly over 650mph air speed but it's way faster than lesser planes.

The jet I was in had a tail wind that would have lessened the true air speed so it would not have suffered the same stress as the subject jet.

I'm keeping the AB comment as all it did was embellish my personal story. I don't think I'm the first in this forum to do that.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by gwood

Some ADSB data here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUkSlxcC8Jc

Excellent summary

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Not sure when wings would rip off. The A380 can fly over 650mph air speed but it's way faster than lesser planes.

The jet I was in had a tail wind that would have lessened the true air speed so it would not have suffered the same stress as the subject jet.

I'm keeping the AB comment as all it did was embellish my personal story. I don't think I'm the first in this forum to do that.

Tailwinds lessen TAS? Please elaborate.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Why is the "black box" in a plane at this point? Every crash they wonder if the data is recoverable. With current technology you think that data would be transmitted someplace or to the cloud.

If you have a smart phone, ask Siri or Alexa or whatever to display the aircraft overhead right now. There are thousands of airplanes flying at any one moment. Many commercial aircraft are out over the ocean, and the only place to transmit date to would be a satellite. Keeping a satellite lock while traveling at 500 to 600 MPH is not an easy task, and likely only the military or Air Force One would want to try.

The on board boxes are pretty well designed to survive almost any crash, subsequent fires or sinking to thousands of feet in the ocean. They can record a lot of data that no transmission would be able to keep up.

[Ayles]

If you havent checked it out there is an app called flight radar 24. Pretty interesting to see whats going on in the sky all over the world.

I pay $11 a year for mine which allows you to set alerts based on tail number. I get a buzz every time the state troopers are flying for example.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Tailwinds lessen TAS? Please elaborate.

It does not but the air is moving with the plane, so it's sort of like walking fast on one of those treadmill things at the airport.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Tailwinds lessen TAS? Please elaborate.

Indicated airspeed. Skuze me.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Skuze me...

...while I touch the sky.

I hope that the Chinese version of the NTSB gets this right.

There are varying degrees of willingness on the part of many countries to get to the heart of the root cause of an accident.

I investigated a crash at the Sikorsky Factory that killed the Sikorsky pilot I was renting a room from during the week...I drove home on weekends and stayed with Yong during the week.

During the investigation, one of the engineers from the Depot in Cherry Point that had engineering oversight of fielded CH-53's remember an accident in an Asian country that may have been similar in nature to ours.

What we thought was the root cause aircraft dynamic component assembly for our crash, which we broke down and investigated in detail, was still intact in that country and had not been investigated or dis-assembled..

She flew over with a team that opened up the large assembly and found the exact same failure mode, from an accident that happened over five years prior.

We grounded the fleet of CH-53's.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by 911/914gary

That's right, the DFDR records flight crew inputs, but I thought the CVR was a component of the this. Not all aircraft have CVR's. Does the if the NG this?

Yes, it would be required to have both and FDR and a CVR.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by 911/914gary

The NG came out in 1997. Don't know if that was required for C of A then.

Never mind. Per the Aviation Herald this did have the CVR and it was recovered.

Any transport category after 1990 has both, with some exceptions for smaller aircraft.