Here is the you tube documentary showing the options in the UK driving a Taycan on various distances,lack of charging stations that work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Hz5ViS_18

Part of the kickback that pro EV folks are seeing is when we read things like these:
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/internal-combustion-death-blow-europe-bans-engines-2026/

https://www.motortrend.com/news/european-union-upholds-2035-internal-combustion-engine-ban/

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-pledges-end-gas-powered-federal-vehicle-purchases-by-2035-2021-12-08/

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a36292118/phasing-out-internal-combustion-engines/

And some of us pro EV people don't really applaud the forcing or timelines, they are sold out months in advance from nearly every manufacturer, subsidies and arbitrary timeliness are pretty unnecessary.

The politics of the manner in no way makes the cars themselves as impractical as people like to get worked up about.

And to tow something long distance, use a diesel, of course an electric truck is a stupid choice.

Unfortunately, there is a strong contingent of militant pro EV folks in the public and in governments who will wish to enforce their opinion on the public "for their own good" in yet another version of the end justifies the means. They create a bad rap for folks like yourself.

Well there you have it.
Have your fun now I'd say.

I’m going to back the synthetic fuel Porsche is working on, this is a sports car forum after all. Go jerk off to your Teslas on one of their many forums

Oh so we can't talk off topic in the off topic discussion forum. My bad...

I dunno that people are getting worked up, but will point out the title of this thread is Everyone needs to have only EVs..

That is impractical.

Yep.

whats not fun about a car that runs 11s without a sweat exactly?

if you've never driven a tesla performance, its more fun that 99% of modern cars, and puts anything not modern to shame.

i mean not really.

im seriously considering a lightning as my tow truck for road racing, to replace my tundra.

I agree, not practical for every situation.

Local tracks would be fine, or lots of time for charging stops. An EV truck makes perfect sense for work trucks that have a typical radius of only so many miles, etc.

The comment was more about people that say F150 Lightnings are garbage because they have a stop a lot when towing a giant horse trailer 3000 miles. Well, yeah, that'd be real slow, wrong tool for the job.

that use case is well under 1% of truck owners.

plus you could just rent a truck for way cheaper than driving/owning/insuring a gas/diesel truck.

For the VAST majority of people, a car is just a large expensive appliance to keep outside. It is a simple tool, to get in and be transported to where you want to go, when you want to go. They what it to start and stop and get them to the destination.

If I was in a big city commute for 30 minutes to an hour each way (shudder) an EV is perfect. That simply does not fit my lifestyle. I own two cars, the 911 is pure big boy toy, and I love it. The other is my get around town at any time transportation. Both have been paid for for multiple decades, and can be repaired and maintained for just a fraction of the cost of a new car payment.

In Oklahoma we produce lots of hydrocarbons locally. Our state will be one of the last to bow to the pressure from the feds to stop selling gasoline. I feel sure it will not be a problem in my lifetime.

I honestly see no point in my future where I will own an electric vehicle. My old cars are a big part of my hobbies. This weekend I have three PCA events to go to. A social event, a car show, and an autocross.

I just ordered new carpet for my EL Camino. Every 20 years I have to replace the carpet as it just wears out. Still way less than a car payment and is a cost of fractions of a cent per mile.

Whew. Lots of caustic folks in this thread.

Agree with MysticLlama, lots of us EV owners and enthusiasts that are just focused on the product and the right tool for the job. Looks like others in this thread really want to attach other stuff like politics to these inanimate objects.

I've been working in the car industry my whole life and the past 8 years or so in EVs. I joined Rivian a few years ago and have had an R1T for 7 months now. It's a great truck for most of the retail buying public, folks who aren't tradesmen that rely on the full capability of a pickup. I use it mostly to take my family places, mountain biking and surf runs, camping trips, some towing, home improvement, etc. It'll smoke most anything else out there (certainly any other pickup) which is also fun. For my use-case, this truck presents the best compromise, I also helped develop it though, so that might have something to do with it :)

I've only taken it as far as Nevada (Lake Tahoe trips), but have heard the charging infrastructure is not so great outside California. Here we've got abundant fast charging nearly everywhere in the state. I think we'll see this trickle into the rest of the country as more people purchase EVs.

Bay Area pelican folks are welcome to check my truck out, just PM me. :)

A little off-roading

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641759085.jpg

Ran down to L.A. to pick up my 911 last month

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1657661497.jpg

Typical charging stop activity when going to LA. Munching and drinking. (I feel you MMARSH)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1657661752.jpg

That is great to see Amir. ^

And those are very cool trucks. The additional impressive design features had me considering one but, meh, I have enough toys.

Again, I have zero issues with EVs, hybrids, etc...I plan on looking hard at a small hybrid truck when I sell the farm.

However, if they are now as competent as all that own them write, and I believe you, end all Federal incentives now.

One other thought.

To me, going to an EV is like going from an iPhone to an Android device (or vise versa).

EV's require a whole new rhythm of interaction.

Some will insist that the new rhythm is the ONLY thing that should exist. (as the title of this thread says)

Yeah, I like choices. And I like the mechanical reliability of of old school gear.
Electrical systems -even the starter batteries in my cars- I see as a somewhat necessary evil. :-/
I'm so weird that on that point that I'll often park on a slope just so I can bump-start the car.
I've had a couple old Mercedes Diesels that would go and stop purely mechanically.
I find something very cool about that.

This. They need to stand on their own as a product.

The same thing can be said about the massive corn subsidies to turn food into fuel.

island, it's pretty cool that we're both still here. I don't post as much as I used to, but I remember your posts from back when I joined this forum as a teenager. I'm coming up on 40 in a few years, crazy. Yes, we've got a lot of cool features in the R1. Jam-packed with stuff to make your life easier if you're into adventuring.

Above a certain price point, I only recommend EVs to people who ask me what car to get (keep in mind my social circle is almost entirely California-based and these are mostly people who like to drive a nice car, but aren't necessarily "into cars"). If you can afford a Tesla Model 3 or Y, there is no better car on the market in that price point and segment. If you can afford a standard Model S, even better. In the high premium segments, our Rivian R1T and R1S are excellent, as is the Tesla Model S Plaid.

I'm not getting rid of my ICE vehicles. I have my 911, but I also have a few motorcycles that I ride more often than I drive the Rivian. A friend of mine came by with a Zero the other day. She works there and they have a demo fleet so she brought one by to let me try it out. I hopped on and went around some twisty roads by my house. It was fine, and it has its own character with a motor and gear whine noise, but so much of the motorcycle riding experience is in the combustion engine and the mechanical interaction of changing gears. An EV moto is not for me (or at least not right now).

This is what it is all about... Controlling or limiting the mobility of the masses...

It will become more apparent in time...

Hey Amir,

Wish you had posted before went up north. I would've loved to check it out. I haven't put hands on one in person . I'm very interested in the SUV version. When will that start production? Also, can you flat tow the Rivian, I've heard conflicting info. I would like to flat tow it behind my motorhome and replace our Jeep.

I agree, I have zero plans to get rid of all of my ICE vehicles. Heading out on a 10 day motorcycle trip next week and can't imagine having to deal with arranging my adventure around charging stops and range. No thanks.

Will this be before or after they kick down our door and take our firearms.......

SauCy is not wrong. There does exist a sizable group of people who pursue that level of control. Already Californians have been asked to not charge their EV's. 'Smart home" devices give utilities control over devices.

I moved to the bay area 5 years ago, before I worked for Rivian. I moved up here because I got a job at NIO, a chinese EV manufacturer that's also building cool products. Although not for the US (for now). I seem to recall you're in the SF Valley? I stay in the valley when I come to L.A. If you're around maybe we can meet for lunch next time if I can get away from the family.

The R1S is in production now, and we're delivering them. You'll start to see them soon. I have a deposit on an S, but I really like owning a pickup truck (never had one before). I might walk away from the S, depends on when I get the call. You cannot flat-tow the R1S or T unfortunately.

Speaking of inadequate electric grid, I had to bite the bullet on a tesla powerwall because of PG&E shutting the power off constantly here in the mountains where I live. As soon as the wind picks up a little they turn it off for fear of starting a fire. God forbid they invest in updating the infrastructure.

Good news is, between the powerwall and my solar setup I'm pretty much cost neutral and the grid going down doesn't really affect me much since I can still charge the truck (albeit at a slower pace than usual). Can't restrict my mobility if I ain't dependent on them for it :)

Having to go to a gas station to pump fuel that's transported from the other side of the planet on the other hand...I suspect there are more ways the government can disrupt that supply chain.

I'm sorry I was trying to say, I wish you had posted your offer to see your truck before we went up north last weekend. I would've tried tried to meet up... I actually live in Acton. So definitely next time your down in LA, we can meet up.
Bummer about the flat towing....

I agree with you here. Hybrid for me as well. I’m considering the Jeep Wrangler hybrid. It’s a plug in hybrid so it gets 30 or so miles on a full electric charge or you can go into hybrid mode or full dinosaur mode with a 2.4l turbo.

Hey Amir, I have seen a few of those around and they do look like cool tech. Unfortunately my 12,500 pound trailer makes those not an option as I need a diesel here at altitude.

On a side note, I hope your job was not on the design team :)

A set of 30 300W panels on a house will output up to 10kW of power, giving you 80kWh in an 8 hour day, which will fully charge two vehicles. Of course some places will have more or less sunlight, but the maths suggests there is plenty of solar energy available to cover our needs, given current population levels.



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EVs are much slower, if you include refuelling time.

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You dudes are dreaming if you think China and Russia will ever agree to 'lower emissions'. It's not going to happen.

I plan to keep my gas cars running for a long time.

wouldn't that be 9kW? 30x300=9,000

And do 300W panels actually give 300W throughout an 8 hr day? And I thought people charged at night. - drove during the day.

Where's Redbeard.. :-/

A. Rounding error. B. You store in batteries and needn't charge at the time of harvesting. C. Many won't use a full charge every day.

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hmmm... so now we are buying and installing a battery bank the size of the car's?

And how often does that huge battery bank need replacing?

Sounds expensive with a large foot print. :-/

Around these parts we have lots of trees and hydro electric. Then again, the prices on that keep getting jacked up.

Not according to some celebrities and politicians.

Yeah, they both make big bank selling fantasies.

We have had solar and battery back up installed on custom homes. 8 year old install, batteries are shot, out of warranty, 38k plus recycling fee to replace. Then the discussion starts about the weak solar panels and how much better the new ones are. doesn't pencil out for the average consumer