IMS Failure

[stealthn]

Reading the latest articles in Excellence about the IMS failures in almost all engines since water cooling , i began to wonder how really prevalent it is? You have to think if there are companies that would build systems to alert you to upcoming failures due to metal in the oil, it's got to be a big issue.

If it's this bad and a fundamental design flaw, why wouldn't Porsche fix it, unless it's not that common and all hype. I know Porsche is famous for not fixing flaws (cough...Cayenne coolant tubes....cough), but surely if it spans multiple engines, they would recall for it? No?

How many f you have had it and on what car?

It seems like each newer Porsche I look at as the possibility of the "dreaded issue"

Bob

[chocolatelab]

Interested in the responses. My sense is that it happens occasionally but not often.

Bad news always travels loudest and fastest.

I'm sure there is an accurate percentage rate out there. .05% is my guess. That isn't based on any known facts just a guess.

[enzo1]

Wayne is making a IMS kit...ask him, on cayman boxster forum they say to buy 2009--on ... here's some reading on IMS I've posted before but...http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html another...Anothe IMS save more...http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/159951-intermediate-shaft-failure.html

[450knotOffice]

The Rennlist 996 forum, which is very active, devotes quite a bit of bandwidth to the subject, but the accepted rate seems to be somwhere around maybe 5%.

On a personal note, I've owned a 2000 996 for six years and have used it as a daily driver (still do). It has 132,300 miles and counting. In the six years I've owned it, I've logged roughly 95,000 miles in it. It has been supremely reliable. I replaced my clutch at about 110,000 miles, and while I was in there, had the IMS bearing and flange replaced with the LN Engineering version for peace of mind. Interestingly, when the original was pulled, it was perfect.

[speeder]

I had a high-miles early 996 that was on its second engine, (don't know what happened to the first one). I'm pretty sure that the 2nd one had way over 100k on it and it was still perfect in every way. If you did the upgraded IMS bearing like 450 knot, those motors are basically about as temperamental as a Toyota 22R or an old Mercedes diesel. Even w/o the upgrade, they might go forever.

[Embraer]

you do see lots of boxsters and early 996's with toasted engines for sale. perhaps craigslist and ebay tend to attract the sellers of toasted-engined cars...so it appears that it happens a lot.

[HardDrive]

Has the first small block Chevy engine swap been done on a 996 yet? It would not surprise me a bit....

[pwd72s]

There is a former P-car owner on the Bullitt board who gave up P-cars...he
suffered three engine failures in two different Boxsters.

Guess I was lucky...I figured if I was going to buy a water cooled car, I'd buy one that's always been water cooled.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Has the first small block Chevy engine swap been done on a 996 yet? It would not surprise me a bit....

Rebel now has a kit for the 996. They also have an electrical solution so everything works as it should. (Gauges etc)

[onewhippedpuppy]

Now on my 4th 986/996, I've done a lot of research on the topic. It appears to be very rare but hard to quantify with a number. Remember that forums tend to attract problems, far less people join just to discuss how reliable their cars are. Porsche made gradual improvements over time, so ideally just buy the newest car you can afford. With that said, I've owned a first year 996 and wouldn't hesitate to do so again.

[dennis in se pa]

Rare? One person experiences 2 failures and you call it rare? I sold my last Porsche because I feared such a failure. The person who eventually had the mentioned failures said I was "over reacting". He said it really wasn't that much of a problem. He and I both drive Mustangs now. And he is singing a different tune.
It's not that they had a problem. It's that they took so long to fix it.

[sc_rufctr]

It's more common than Porsche will ever admit. How many many businesses world wide are fixing these engines?

Why doesn't Porsche fix the problem once and for all?

Personally I'm very disappointed with Porsche. It took them a long time to build a reputation for reliability and build quality and then this happens.
Meanwhile the owner of a local independent Porsche workshop told me he's been seeing more and more Cayennes coming in for major engine repairs.

All of this is good news for anyone who owns an air cooled Porsche. It will only be a few years before the humble 911 SC will be worth more than any water cooled Porsche.

[legion]

Man, I was hoping for a good thread on hierarchical databases...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Rare? One person experiences 2 failures and you call it rare? I sold my last Porsche because I feared such a failure. The person who eventually had the mentioned failures said I was "over reacting". He said it really wasn't that much of a problem. He and I both drive Mustangs now. And he is singing a different tune.

It's not that they had a problem. It's that they took so long to fix it.

One data point doesn't equal a statistical representation.

I love the old cars as well, but what part of pulled head studs, premature valve seal wear, exploding airboxes, grinding 915 gearboxes, etc do you not understand? It's not uncommon for an air cooled 911 to need a full $10k rebuild at 100k miles but you claim they are more reliable? These are Porsches, not Hondas. Regardless of what you buy there is always the possibility of expensive maintenance. Frankly I have seen far more 100k+ water cooled cars for sale that are on their original motors than the older cars. If you're sweating the IMS issues then get the updated aftermarket kit for $500 and you're good to go.

[kaisen]

How many open spots need to be in the revolver before you'd play Russian roulette?

[bell]

In 2 years I have seen about 10 come through our shop with failed ims bearings..........all boxsters..........there is little warning........so it is not a farce.....and no warning.....

[RKC]

I don't know how rare it is, all I know is that it happened to my 2007 Targa 4S at about 18,000 miles. The dealer fixed it under warranty. Interestingly, they took all sorts of photos and talked to some higher ups and rebuilt the engine, rather than replace it. Total bill for the rebuild was around $11,800 as I recall. Not sure if that reflects what I would have had to pay if the car were out of warranty.

Porsche finally gave up on the IMS in 2009 997.2's, I think.

The engine failed with no warning (sort of - see below) - a sound from the back like a belt being mangled, warning/charging lights flashing, and power steering failure - luckily just a few blocks from home. Flatbed to the dealer (nearby, but the drive belt runs the water pump).

After talking with the techs, they asked it there had been a more lumpy idle or out of balance sensation at idle. I think perhaps there was, because I remember thinking something felt a little weird at startup in the days before, but it was subtle and wasn't severe enough to cause worry.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by legion

Man, I was hoping for a good thread on hierarchical databases...

Ha!

[450knotOffice]

The IMS is the potential weak spot in what is an otherwise VERY robust engine. The problem is simple to fix and is inexpensive.

Oh, and by the way, my wife owns a 987 Cayman, with the same basic bearing. She's driven it 60,000 miles and five years. No issues. So, between the two cars, with the 110,000 miles on the original bearing of my 996, and the 60,000 miles on her Cayman, we've had 170,000 trouble free miles.

But yea, the air cooled cars are completely trouble free. Always have been. Right? Hmm. Well, most every 3.2 I know of, including mine, needed a top overhaul because of worn valve guides at 120,000 miles. Expensive repair. The head studs are a known issue with SC's. Oh, and lets not forget the cam chain tensioners in the air cooled engines that would fail without any apparent warning, destroying these very expensive engines. It took Porsche 20 years - from 1964 to 1984 - to finally come up with a viable solution. Twenty years!! So yea, those air cooled engines have always been, ahem, bullet proof. Yeaaaaaa.

[pwd72s]

Hey, I'm happy to be on the dark side....nevermore will my shadow darken a Porsche dealership or shop door...