Seized lug nuts.

[Starless]

I've never had an issue removing lug nuts on any car I've ever had. Twice this year, in the spring and yesterday changing over summer and winter tires I've come across a seized lug nut. Different location. They start coming off OK, then just seize, can't turn them in any direction. Last year I actually snapped off the stud. Car is a 2016 Subaru Crosstrek, garage kept, and only 2500 miles since last changeover in March. I use a torque wrench, so I'm not over tightening them. Any idea what could be the issue here?
Thanks.

[billybek]

We live in an area that uses a lot of salt on the roads in the winter time. I put a small dab of copper coat anti size on the studs when changing tires over and smear a small amount on the hub centre for hubcentric fit wheels.

[slow&rusty]

Sounds like you need to apply some Anti-Seize to the threads and I recommend using an impact gun for removal, the impact -hammer action will help with any corrosion on the threads.

[Starless]

I've read conflicting opinions on applying anti-seize to lug nuts, but it seems like it may be a good idea considering the issue. I could see salt being an issue removing the nuts in the spring, but I'm having the same issue now in the fall when the car hasn't seen any salty roads in months. Plus, we've only put @ 2500 miles on it.
Any recommendations on anti-seize? I'll look into the copper coat.

[rfuerst911sc]

I assume the lug studs are steel , what are the lug nuts made of ? As others have stated anti seize is your friend 😁 . Just a thin coat is sufficient . You can use the silver or copper color they both will work .

I have been using anti seize on lug nuts/bolts for darn near 50 years . Have used on cars/trucks/SUV's and never have had an issue . Torque to spec and retorque after driving and you are good to go .

Final thought : no matter how diligent and clean you are anti seize will get on everything. It is just what it is 😋

[Chocaholic]

Perfectly safe to use on lug nut threads. But not suggested for lug seats. As I recall, copper antiseize is for high temp applications. But any kind will work just fine.

Not sure if it will help but you may want to hit with PB Blaster (or similar) and tap gently with a hammer periodically. Try again to remove in 24 hours. Heat may help also.

[porsche tech]

I have used anti-seize on my lug studs or lug bolts for years without issue.

[Starless]

Thanks all! Anti-seize it is. I'm not messing with the suck one, bringing it to my local guy to deal with it. I'm sure I'll snap it again if i try any further.

[GH85Carrera]

Having had my El Camino for 31 years and 377,000 miles I went through many sets of tires. I always hated watching the tire monkeys using an impact wrench to put the lug nuts back on without starting them by hand.

I had one or two studs on every wheel that were wonky. The nuts had been partially cross threaded or over torqued or some problem and it took a lot to remove some nuts. Finally I had enough and replaced all the wheel studs, and the nuts and then just thread on as they should, and just a torque wrench to tighten them.

I finally found a local shop that spent the time to do it right. I told them up front, all the lug nuts are new, and to use caution on them.

For my 911, I always put it on the lift, remove all 4 wheel and tires and throw them and the new tires in the back of the El Camino and off to a local independent Porsche only repair shop. They have a new tire machine, and get the new tires mounted with zero damage to the wheels and road force balance. No one but me removes and replaces those aluminum nuts.

[Starless]

GH85C, I've been the only one who has mounted the tires on this car from new. Bought the winter tires with rims. Always tighten by hand, and then use a torque wrench. It's only got 40K miles on it and has been garage kept it's entire life. Never had an issue with any other car, hell, our 2010 Rav4 sits outside all year and I've never had a problem.

[matthewb0051]

I'd also recommend a very small amount of copper paste on the mating area of wheel to hub. One spring in Northern NY after I had massive shoulder surgery my buddies came over to help me change from snow tires to my summers. The cursing and use of force on almost all 8 wheels was over the top. All had some amount of seizing and some were almost impossible to get the wheel off the hub from the prior winter's snow and salt.

It was very nice of them to help but even with the busted wing, I was the only one with any mechanical ability. So it was like 5 monkeys and a football (I left out the dirty part of that saying)

[cockerpunk]

suarbus have the worst wheel studs. even torquing to factory specs with a torque wrench and you'll mess them up.

i dont even own a subaru, and i have a half dozen spares in my garage for friends with them.

[aschen]

Technically you should reduce the torque spec on fasteners when using anit sieze.

Torque is based on putting axial force in the stud, the coefficient of friction between the parts has a substantial effect and is reduced significantly by lube.

The internet will be full of philosphy on this but for normal cars I generally torque to 95 ftlbs without lube and 80-85 with.

Subaru studs are quite junkie in my past experience.

[cockerpunk]

you should never anti-seize a lug.

perhaps on the surface of the wheel against the hub to stop it from rusting on, but never anti-seize the lug itself. thats a really great way to have either failed studs, or vibrating them off.

[Starless]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

you should never anti-seize a lug.

perhaps on the surface of the wheel against the hub to stop it from rusting on, but never anti-seize the lug itself. thats a really great way to have either failed studs, or vibrating them off.

That's what I've been finding. But I'm tired of the seized lug nuts. I'm thinking a bit of anti seize and check them every couple of week or so as we only put like 5K miles on it a year. I'd hate to have a flat and not be able to change the tire.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Starless

That's what I've been finding. But I'm tired of the seized lug nuts. I'm thinking a bit of anti seize and check them every couple of week or so as we only put like 5K miles on it a year. I'd hate to have a flat and not be able to change the tire.

i have herd ARP racing studs are better for subarus ... but its just a cost of doing business with them, IMO.

[island911]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

you should never anti-seize a lug.

perhaps on the surface of the wheel against the hub to stop it from rusting on, but never anti-seize the lug itself. thats a really great way to have either failed studs, or vibrating them off.

Nope.

The smart solution is Anti-seize on the threads with metal to metal contact everywhere else.

The physics of this is that the hold friction is on the ball (or taper) of the lug and not on the relatively delicate threads.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by island911

Nope.

The smart solution is Anti-seize on the threads with metal to metal contact everywhere else.

The physics of this is that the hold friction is on the ball (or taper) of the lug and not on the relatively delicate threads.

the hold friction has never been on the threads. the threads generate the clamping force, and thus the hold friction.

go on, put anti-seize on your lugs ... its not pretty.

[Arizona_928]

anti sieze arguments.

My ram 2500 left the Mexican factory with anti seize.
But the Mexican tire shop seized a lug nut on my Honda. PITA to remove it. Ended up angle grinding the stud/nut until it reached the rim and used a chisel for the rest of the way off.

[aschen]

these things are built with plenty of factor of safety this aint rocket surgery

Anti seize on the threads is fine, not ideal from an engineering intent perspective but neither is plastically deformed or pitted studs. Agreed to not get it on the seat of the nut. Back off the torque spec by about 10% and you will be fine. They wont go anywhere, doesnt hurt to check though.


If you do this with care you will be much better off than 99% of the cars on the road with randomly torqued lugs probably stretched by discount tire at some point in their life and potentially substantially weakended by corrosion

If you arnt in a corrosion prone area or this isnt a problem for you I wouldn't bother though.


If you need to sleep better you can remember that most older Porsche wheels are held on by aluminum lug nuts.