Need some suggestions on replacing broken PVC pipe...

[fintstone]

I would recommend that you replace what you dug up (all the fittings and short pieces on both lines) with schedule 80 (grey) vs the schedule 40 in there now (while you are in there).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by dad911

If only there was a book... 101 Home repairs for the DIYer.... Chapter 6, Pools and Spas.

Not all Fernco fittings are rated for burial.

Queue next book from Wayne! 101 Ideas for your home! Wayne will now spend the next 3 years talking to experts, tagging along on various dispatches, researching products. And then we'll have a killer book!

[GH85Carrera]

Your dirt is a funny color! Or maybe it is that you have sandy looking soil.


My recent rapair project.

Our yard is 100% clay. If you take out the organic material, you can throw a pot on a potting wheel or make bricks. So imagine trying to dig in potting clay when it is wet. Or if it dry, it is brick like.

Wise decision to use pavers and not let them concrete over the plumbing. Personally I would avoid as many 90 degree elbows as possible. Every elbow is a water flow restriction. The pump has to work harder to overcome the flow loss.

[Superman]

Those white couplings do strike me as very brittle. Fixing this problem with more of those might not be best. Indeed, if you expect the ground to keep moving then a less brittle/rigid line might also be less temporary. Since this is not a pressure line....instead just a gravity line, then I wonder if a flexible hose would work better. I also wonder if you will consider replacing the entire line, end to end. And finally, if you chose, you could use flexible hose and protect it with a larger rigid pipe section. At least in some areas. Schedule 80 or something. I think that stuff can be heated and bent as well. Good hose, of sufficient diameter and construction, might be spendy. But future failures would also be spendy. I tend to lean toward the more permanent solutions. Quality is expensive, but you cry only once.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Superman

Those white couplings do strike me as very brittle. Fixing this problem with more of those might not be best. Indeed, if you expect the ground to keep moving then a less brittle/rigid line might also be less temporary. Since this is not a pressure line....instead just a gravity line, then I wonder if a flexible hose would work better. I also wonder if you will consider replacing the entire line, end to end. And finally, if you chose, you could use flexible hose and protect it with a larger rigid pipe section. At least in some areas. Schedule 80 or something. I think that stuff can be heated and bent as well. Good hose, of sufficient diameter and construction, might be spendy. But future failures would also be spendy. I tend to lean toward the more permanent solutions. Quality is expensive, but you cry only once.

I was told that the sort of repair that I suggested creates an area with increased flexibility.

Yes, the couplings (regardless of angle) are stiffer and brittle. I think the key is that if you have a single coupling, that coupling gets all of the stress. If you replace it with what I call a bridge, then the stress gets divided across the 4x90Ί. So each coupling then maxes (in ideal conditions) out at 25% of what a single coupling would see.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

It broke because the ground is moving quite a bit.

I would replace as much as possible with flex PVC. The ground under pavers is always going to move.

[nota]

1 rubber repair 45 deg bend hose clamp both ends about $10 home depo
that will allow minor flexing without failing /leaking
worse case it pulls out and can be refit after big ground moves

cheap quick eazy two pipe cuts at bad fitting screw the clamps tight
sawsall with a metal fine blade do not shake like a wood big tooth blade will

[Wayne 962]

Okay, this is all good advice. We can probably go on another 5 pages of threads, and all the suggestions will still be good. I've got the flexpipe coming from Amazon today (same day delivery - woohoo), and I'll post pics.

In the meantime, just to give more perspective - the two pipes are not close to each other - they are several inches apart. The pavers have *significant* movement - see photos. This is a problem with the house too, we're going to have to have pillars installed in the coming year - I've just been waiting for the housing market to cool down a bit so that prices on this (pricey) repair become a bit reasonable (hopefully).

See in particular the areas around where I'm working and the land movement. The soil is mostly clay, which is bad for movement, etc.

Ah, the joys of home ownership. And again, I just couldn't pay someone $950 to do this repair - it seems like a ripoff to me. And this is not a commercial property, so it's $950 *after* taxes (which means it's really a $1,900 or so cost).

-Wayne

[Baz]

Thanks for the updates, Wayne.

Not sure who you got your quote from - but in these parts any reputable irrigation contractor could do the pipe work for you at an acceptable price. Then you just backfill. Or they could too.

Point being - by hiring them just to do the pipe work - you'd be past the technical part and the work would be done by a pro.

Here in my area you wouldn't pay more than $250. Probably be even less.

Of course, if I were there I do it for you for free!

I was an irrigation contractor here for many years, BTW. What you are doing is very simple stuff....

[Baz]

I also think going with the flex pipe is a mistake.

The method to go straight up first and then bridge across that was mentioned on the 1st page would make the most sense, IMHO.

If you try to get it re-plumbed with flex pipe way down in the hole it's going to be a big PITA....speaking from experience.....

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Baz

If you try to get it re-plumbed with flex pipe way down in the hole it's going to be a big PITA....speaking from experience.....

Can you please explain? I don't understand? From this angle, it looks like I cut the PVC Flex pipe, slide it on, and then clamp it. Done in perhaps the same time it took to write this reply? Like a car radiator hose. Maybe I'm missing something here (probably).

Thx,

Wayne

[masraum]

Yep, clay sucks when moisture content changes a lot.

When I had the first break, the guy fixed it using the 4x90Ί bridge method (I'd already dug the hole) for <$200. My third break that was above ground, but I couldn't easily get to it due to work, I think they charged $350. They did use very different (brass) fittings. I fixed the middle break myself. It was a straight line so I used a compression coupling.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Baz

I also think going with the flex pipe is a mistake.

The method to go straight up first and then bridge across that was mentioned on the 1st page would make the most sense, IMHO.

If you try to get it re-plumbed with flex pipe way down in the hole it's going to be a big PITA....speaking from experience.....

Yea, working at the end of arm extension, flat on your chest sucks, sticking your haed and shoulders down in the hose to get to the pipe is even worse.

Personally I agree, flex pipe is not the best "fix" but it will be a patch for now.

I put in my own lawn sprinkler system 24 years ago. For the most part it has been flawless. My wife keeps taking over hunks of the yard to install yet another flowerbed is the majority of my working on the system, except for a few head replacements and those are just super easy.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

Can you please explain? I don't understand? From this angle, it looks like I cut the PVC Flex pipe, slide it on, and then clamp it. Done in perhaps the same time it took to write this reply? Like a car radiator hose. Maybe I'm missing something here (probably).

Thx,

Wayne

Not sure what your flex pipe is compared to what we use. When you say "clamp it" - that's not how we secure it here. We use PVC cement and PVC fittings...like couplers, ells, 45's, etc. The flex pipe is used just like PVC pipe except it flexes. But it doesn't flex "that much" so working in a tight area such as yours will be challenging, IMHO.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Baz

Not sure what your flex pipe is compared to what we use. When you say "clamp it" - that's not how we secure it here. We use PVC cement and PVC fittings...like couplers, ells, 45's, etc. The flex pipe is used just like PVC pipe except it flexes. But it doesn't flex "that much" so working in a tight area such as yours will be challenging, IMHO.

I think what he went with was this from Amazon Fernco Qwikflex

[Baz]

Originally Posted by masraum

I think what he went with was this from Amazon Fernco Qwikflex

If so, I wonder if it is rated for how much pressure Wayne will have going through that pipe.....that would be my concern.

Hey if it works - great.

Maybe there's not that much pressure......

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Wayne 962

Can you please explain? I don't understand? From this angle, it looks like I cut the PVC Flex pipe, slide it on, and then clamp it. Done in perhaps the same time it took to write this reply? Like a car radiator hose. Maybe I'm missing something here (probably).

Thx,

Wayne

THe flex PVC I'm talking about is just like ridged PVC but it's somewhat flexible. It's great for underground use, or on a vibrating pump. Here is a piece I put on our pool filter. It's about 18" long and the most you can reasonably bend that length is about 6". I use schedule 80 fittings because the have a deeper socket.
I would cut that old pipe back as far as I could get it to make bending the flex pipe easier, and glue it in with schedule 80 connectors. But you radiator hose might work OK. I guess you'll find out.

[A930Rocket]

When we built houses on basements, we used to loop the waterline going into the foundation for ground settlement. Perhaps Wayne could do the same if he’s going to use a flex hose?

[Wayne 962]

I got the black Flex piece from Amazon today - it's not useful - it kinks at the slightest bend (like 5 degrees). Going back to Amazon!

Gosh, I'm thinking that I might be overthinking this. I mean some silicone hose like this one should last forever, right?

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Reinforced-Performance-Diameter-Silicone/dp/B085XXB27M/ref=sr_1_3?crid=I5TCF4FV14Y&keywords=45+degree+Radiator+Hose+1.25%22&qid=1667952780&sprefix=45+degree+radiator+hose+1.25+%2Caps%2C170&sr=8-3

-Wayne

[dad911]

Yes, overthinking it.

Flex schedule 40 pvc over the counter at plumbing supply, pool and big-box stores. 2 couplings, cleaner and glue - done before lunch tomorrow.

The flexible pvc lines (buried) from my pool built in 2002 still good.