Another Good Deed - Punished

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Saying they should go back to Ukraine is ugly and xenophobic. Thinking they'll collect taxpayer money is ludicrous.

Oh geezus. I've never met anyone who was afraid of foreigners. WTF does that word even mean? Being pissed off that people in a war zone jump to the front of the line ahead of the ones who try to do the right thing means you're afraid of foreigners? How about I get refunded the $4k in fees I paid for Mrs. Lee to adjust her status when we got married, even though she came here legally after a very arduous process and was never out of status for a day? But somehow others get to the front of the line because of the politics of the day.

[Por_sha911]

The OP said 6-7 hours - that puts it at $7.15 per hour per person. Not terrible but not exactly philanthropic. The sponsor may be leery of people trying to take advantage of the Ukrainian couple with attitudes like "well they only make $1 a day back in Ukraine so $2 is generous...".

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

It sounds like the sponsors decided they shouldn't take the job, not the Ukranians. Saying they should go back to Ukraine is ugly and xenophobic. Thinking they'll collect taxpayer money is ludicrous.

A lot of your post should be in PARF and it's out of bounds in this discussion. I don't think AG's offer was bad- see my above post.

Methinks you either take my words out of context or simply do not know the definition for xenophobic. My post did not indicate dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. I made it pretty clear that I really didn't care where they were from. If unemployed and unwilling to work, they don't need to be supported by taxpayers. Whether born in the United States or elsewhere. When I lived in Europe, I did not see a lot of sympathy for people that refused to work there either (regardless of origin). If they can't or won't work here, they have a serious problem. If they would work but their "sponsor" is preventing them from doing so, their "sponsor" is failing them. The best thing they can do is strat working in the community. It will help with language and display their skills/abilities.

I guess reality is ugly, but if they are unemployed and reject labor/service employment, they are much better off returning where they do speak the language and can find work more to their liking...and we certainly don't need them here if they will be dependent upon the state/taxpayer. Since the male is apparently a deserter (from the Ukrainian Army) and speaks Russian, maybe they should try Russia where they could communicate and would be welcomed. We have many millions of unemployed here (apparently unwilling to work) already (and speak English).

There is a thread here already on bitcoin that discusses FTX so I am not really sure why you would be annoyed by my mention of here. The failure of FTX and the issues in play are not exactly secrets, are they? If one is an investor, it is a big deal.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

The OP said 6-7 hours - that puts it at $7.15 per hour per person. Not terrible but not exactly philanthropic. The sponsor may be leery of people trying to take advantage of the Ukrainian couple with attitudes like "well they only make $1 a day back in Ukraine so $2 is generous...".

The sponsor added a second person (as a helper?). I see no reason for the person advertising for help to increase the agreed to pay for the job/task to accommodate that. It was not an hourly job. It was essentially a contract job that they "bid" on. The price was based on a job that a single person could do in the given time hours. The second worker does not add value, so their wanting to come along should not increase the price. The fact that the potential employer offered to add a turkey and a tip because of the circumstances was generous.

[red 928]

[asphaltgambler]

^^thanks for all the replies/ comments. Yes my posting was targeting a local teenager as we've had good success ( usually). I don't know why the sponsor thought it would be a good idea for husband / wife both to work. I upped my offer and planned to give turkey ( sponsor knew that) and a tip. But she didn't know much. It was going to be another $40.

I reposted the job and have a young man that is scheduled tomorrow, 8:30am. I've had several replies, so hopefully the work gets done w/o drama. Also demonstrate to the young man the entrepreneur spirit and the value of $10/hr cash vs what he would have to earn before taxes to net that amount.

[greglepore]

Too close to Upperville...lol. We have the same problem here with the "Albemarle County premium" on everything.
Glad it worked out.

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by stevej37

From one black walnut tree...last year.

Make nocino and pickled walnuts. Out here in the desert we don't have them - but I understand that you have to pick them when they can still be pierced through with a blunt needle (May?). Were I still housed in west GR I have more than a few trees in mind to plunder. Perhaps a mission for my now-elderly-ish parents?

And now I'm recalling the walnut fights in grade school and the stain/stench on my hands afterwards...

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by fintstone

So, it is better to do nothing? They should go back to Ukraine and wait for more of our tax money.

Originally Posted by fintstone

Methinks you either take my words out of context or simply do not know the definition for xenophobic. My post did not indicate dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. I made it pretty clear that I really didn't care where they were from. If unemployed and unwilling to work, they don't need to be supported by taxpayers. Whether born in the United States or elsewhere. When I lived in Europe, I did not see a lot of sympathy for people that refused to work there either (regardless of origin). If they can't or won't work here, they have a serious problem. If they would work but their "sponsor" is preventing them from doing so, their "sponsor" is failing them. The best thing they can do is strat working in the community. It will help with language and display their skills/abilities.

I guess reality is ugly, but if they are unemployed and reject labor/service employment, they are much better off returning where they do speak the language and can find work more to their liking...and we certainly don't need them here if they will be dependent upon the state/taxpayer. Since the male is apparently a deserter (from the Ukrainian Army) and speaks Russian, maybe they should try Russia where they could communicate and would be welcomed. We have many millions of unemployed here (apparently unwilling to work) already (and speak English).

There is a thread here already on bitcoin that discusses FTX so I am not really sure why you would be annoyed by my mention of here. The failure of FTX and the issues in play are not exactly secrets, are they? If one is an investor, it is a big deal.

I think you must have missed the memo on what's going on in Ukraine. Looks like they are war refugees. How do you figure the male is a deserter? Judge much?

I think I know what xenophobia means. Do you?

dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

Wait for more of our tax money? Are you serious? Why do you say that?

Where does is say the Ukrainian couple refused to work? It looks to me like their sponsor made the call. I agree with you- their sponsor failed them.

You assume a lot that you don't know. That reduces your credibility to zero as far as I'm concerned. By the way- where is your humanity and compassion? Take a look at the Poles. Try being a good human instead of an ugly American.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I think you must have missed the memo on what's going on in Ukraine. Looks like they are war refugees. How do you figure the male is a deserter? Judge much?

I think I know what xenophobia means. Do you?

dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

Wait for more of our tax money? Are you serious? Why do you say that?

Where does is say the Ukrainian couple refused to work? It looks to me like their sponsor made the call. I agree with you- their sponsor failed them.

You assume a lot that you don't know. That reduces your credibility to zero as far as I'm concerned. By the way- where is your humanity and compassion? Take a look at the Poles. Try being a good human instead of an ugly American.

If every able-bodied male was conscripted, how is an able-bodied male Ukrainian not a deserter? By definition (or at the very least a draft dodger). Yes. I do judge people's actions quite a bit. Especially when I may be paying (taxes) to feed/house them for the rest of their life. I am already paying to aid their country in a war where they have refused to even negotiate for peace.

Of course, I know the definition of xenophobic. I included it in my post that you referenced and explained why nothing in my previous posts met that definition. Calling others xenophobic is much like calling them racist or misogynist when one's argument fails (although nothing indicates that is the case). Just name-calling (like "ugly American") and an unnecessary cheap shot.

Why did I mention tax money...the Administration plans to spend almost $100B supporting Ukraine this year and has promised to do it (essentially forever if necessary) ...and prevent them from going into debt while borrowing the money and increasing our debt.

Since we have not talked to the people involved, we really have no idea if the sponsor rejected the work without consulting them or not. I cannot imagine turning down work for another without their input, but I did note that if the sponsor did this on their own, they made a mistake.

Where is my compassion? Because I expect people to work the same as I do? I noted that I would certainly do the work myself...and I don't need the money. They are no better than me.

What do "the Poles" have to do with this? It seems the Poles have a democracy (representative democratic republic), free press, and elections unlike Ukraine where we installed the current (apparently corrupt) leader and bragged about it (who promptly shut down the previously free press and other political parties). The same leader that recently lied about the Russians bombing Poland and demanded we start WW3 immediately. The same guy that earlier had asked us to launch a preemptive nuke strake against Russia. Russia has told us for a decade that a nonneutral Ukraine would not tolerated, and we were wise enough not to suggest it an option until this year. While we regard Russia as the bad guy here, their policy is little different than ours (Marshall Plan) and we should have known better (especially after the Administration told them that we would not commit troops to defend Ukraine). The Administrations clear attempts to destabilize Ukraine and Russia seem to have worked, but maybe not the way it was planned.

[Steve Carlton]

- how do you know this man was conscripted or a deserter? You don't. You assume.
- what is the likelihood you'll be feeding or housing these (likely) war refugees for the rest of their lives? Why go there? That's not what this discussion is about.
- how much do you think you've paid to assist Ukraine? Do you think we shouldn't help them?
- you like to judge people. I'm judging you based on your comments. I'm calling you out. You want to consider it name calling because I have no argument- that's fine. You seem to be all about "they should go back" and nothing on your dime. I'm calling that out. Freedom costs. Some money is better than our soldiers, at this point.
- I'm taking asphaltgambler's word for what happened. You can accept it or not. I think assuming otherwise and making arguments based on that is a mistake.
- expecting able bodied people to work is fine. Your lack of compassion lies elsewhere.
- I mentioned the Poles because they have demonstrated extraordinary compassion. They are absorbing the bulk of the Ukranian refugees. It has to be a tremendous sacrifice. I commend them. Suffering at the hands of the ****s seems to have taught them compassion. I shudder to think what would happen to those people if Poland was inhabited by a majority such as yourself.

My suggestion is to keep this on topic. Your assumptions and unrelated opinions belong in PARF.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

- how do you know this man was conscripted or a deserter? You don't. You assume.
- what is the likelihood you'll be feeding or housing these (likely) war refugees for the rest of their lives? Why go there? That's not what this discussion is about.
- how much do you think you've paid to assist Ukraine? Do you think we shouldn't help them?
- you like to judge people. I'm judging you based on your comments. I'm calling you out. You want to consider it name calling because I have no argument- that's fine. You seem to be all about "they should go back" and nothing on your dime. I'm calling that out. Freedom costs. Some money is better than our soldiers, at this point.
- I'm taking asphaltgambler's word for what happened. You can accept it or not. I think assuming otherwise and making arguments based on that is a mistake.
- expecting able bodied people to work is fine. Your lack of compassion lies elsewhere.
- I mentioned the Poles because they have demonstrated extraordinary compassion. They are absorbing the bulk of the Ukranian refugees. It has to be a tremendous sacrifice. I commend them. Suffering at the hands of the ****s seems to have taught them compassion. I shudder to think what would happen to those people if Poland was inhabited by a majority such as yourself.

My suggestion is to keep this on topic. Your assumptions and unrelated opinions belong in PARF.

You make no sense. If every single Ukrainian man is conscripted, how can this one not be?

The likelihood that the U.S. taxpayer will have to help support migrants that do not speak English is pretty high. Especially if they will not do labor (for more than minimum wage as offered here).

Freedom costs? I don't understand your point. That we should pay to have everyone in an oppressed country come here or that we should pay for them to go to war (as their coming here certainly does not make our country any more free). How about sending $100B a year to support freedom fighters in Iran (executing dissidents) or China (also executes dissidents and employs slave labor to make Nikes)? How much money do you think we can print before our country/economy folds and the money is worthless? Just the past two years of runaway inflation should give you a glimpse of that possible future.

Why is the choice to send our money or our soldiers? Why send anyone/anything or choose sides at all? Two corrupt dictatorships that funnel their money away from their people to oligarchs? We have no treaties with this country and no responsibility to them. We should simply sell them weapons. If you want to contribute, send them your money.

No, you are not "taking asphaltgambler's word for what happened"...you are treating what he admitted was speculation as fact.

Why shouldn't the cost/care of migrants (or this war) be shouldered by the wealthy nations of Europe (that laughed at us when it was suggested they need to meet their NATO commitments)? We already accept a couple a million illegal immigrants a year across our southern border (many more than any other nation). We have taken in more than the entire population of several states in just the last 2 years. We really need to defend our own borders first rather than Ukraine's. They are wide open to illegals, terrorists, black markets, traffickers in women and children and drugs (like Fentanyl which is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans). We have lost more to Fentanyl alone (in the last two years) than Ukraine has lost in this entire war. When will Europe send us money to defend our borders?

My assumptions and opinions no more belong in PARF than yours.

[The Synergizer]

You went too deep into this one emotionally.

Stick with the local teenagers.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

$100 for 2 people for 6 hours? That's only about $8 an hour. Nobody pays that these days.
OTOH, you had a deal. If they didn't like the deal they should have said no from the get-go.
The tip and the turkey - what was that about?
We occasionally hire spot help and if I don't know the person I tell them I have a 3 tiered pay system. If they don't show promise in the first hour, I give them $15 and send them home. Then, $15 an hour minimum, $20 if they work at above average productivity. If I see you pick up your cell phone when you're on the clock, you get sent home.

But the theory was that 1 person would show up and work for 6 hours. Then they offered to send 2 people. I guess the theory could be that 2 people for 3 hours would do the same amount of work as 1 person in 6 hours, so they could/should get the job done in half of the time and make all of the money.

[GH85Carrera]

Back when I was in my mid to late 20s before I could afford a house, a friend of mine was in the lawn sprinkler business. He had a big project and the client wanted it done yesterday. My buddy was a typical business owner, and worked 7 days a week when there was a project, and he knew in winter there was no business. He needed just basic ditch digging, actually mostly ditch clean out from what the trencher left behind. It was a Sunday, and he asked if I could help. I really did no want to be a ditch digger, but a good friend asked for my help. He paid above minimum wage, and it was too long ago to remember what the pay was. I spent a day cleaning out ditches, and digging some laterals where the trencher could not get.

I remember being knee deep in a ditch, digging and remembering my grade school teacher admonishing the class to do better or we will be ditch diggers. It was paying OK money, but I was really very happy to end that day. On Monday I had my regular job and I was happy as can be to work indoors in air conditioned comfort. I never wanted to be a ditch digger again, but I put in my own sprinkler system at our house and I had 99 spray heads and 14 sections. I do have to repair a few heads on occasion, but for the most part the system I put in 23 years ago has been bulletproof. I am very thankful I was smart enough to NOT be a ditch digger for a living.

I did just get out of the shower from mowing and edging my yard today.

[red 928]

[911 Rod]

I don't think I've ever been paid in turkeys.

[Jeff Hail]

Every once in a while I will take the gas can to the station for 2 gallons of fuel. I walk in and put two dollars on the counter and then it hits me that was 45 years ago. Out comes the card.

One of my friends tells me this happens to him everytime he fills up a gas can. He mentally reverts back to his Mini-Bike and Go-Kart days as a twelve year old when 50 cents filled up the tank.

[asphaltgambler]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

I don't think I've ever been paid in turkeys.

But was it Thanksgiving holiday?

[stevej37]

I have had Turkey loaves that were dark and white meat wrapped into a roast that were better than any turkey that I've ever had.

It's spoiled me for any turkey dinner since.