I saw this a while back. This is an interesting video and UFC guy. Japanese guy born in Brazil, mostly does Karate.

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^^^ Glove size has a lot to do with the trauma to the opponent, just like in real fights.

I never worked a door, I was always a bartender. I never got in the way when the fur started flying unless they were coming at me, which happened once. The end is always near unless numbers get involved, then I was really out, like GTFO out.

We had an app for that.

Lyoto Machida got put to sleep with a guillotine choke by John Jones. :p:p:p forward to 3:55 BJJ wins again. :D

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For sure but both super tough guys…could have gone either way.

So I guess at the end of the day anything can happen. Can a non trained super violent person beat an MMA fighter in a street fight? Technically yes because fights are unpredictable, but this would be a rare possibility or outlier situation.

If you took 10 MMA fighters and had them fight 10 random guys all comparable size in a street fight I would guess the MMA guy would win 9 if not 10 out of 10 times.

That's like saying an untrained driver whos going off pure adrenalin will beat a trained, skilled drivers lap time on a race track. I'm sure there's that one crazy guy who will push it 100% and edge out a win with some luck, but I'd go with the trained driver every time.

I deal in probabilities not possibilities.

For sure...that was a great fight.

And Jon Jones has a LOT more than JJ in his tool box.

We are in agreement, I’d even say 10 times out of 10 for the trained fighter over the untrained unless their was a huge discrepancy in size/strength or skill on the part of
the untrained person. Anyone I’m going to wind up in a fight with is not a trained fighter, just an ass hole. :)

I agree with this.

I was a lowly ranked boxer then went into French Kick Boxing (for about 15 years), which is fairly much MMA but decades before MMA was even thought of. Devastating fighting when the other had never seen it before LOL

And I lost more than half my fights in the ring but won about 80% of my street fights and bar fights. I knew very quickly as to whether of not the other guy was trained, and if not it was all over in about five seconds.

Holly Holmes did vs. Rhonda Rousey. Beat Rousey's arrogant ass to a pulp.

However, Holmes was transitioning into cage fighting so had some experience.

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Ah, the innocence... Like I've said, you are fortunate to have never seen any of this.

You are still assuming some level of fairness and civility. I bet every fight you have ever been in, and have ever seen, has been in a ring. I bet both combatants were either bare footed or, if boxing, wearing boxing shoes. Or wrestling in wrestling shoes. Wearing regulation gloves. And I bet those rings are notably free of things like fire hydrants, wrought iron decorative railings with spikes on top, curbs, heavy glass beer pitchers, and on and on and on.

The guys I'm talking about like to wear things chosen for their effectiveness in a street fight, because they know they are going to eventually be in one. Like big, heavy, stout (sometimes even steel toed) motorcycle boots. I saw a guy kicked in the shin so hard it shattered his lower leg. I saw a guy get his foot stomped on so hard it crushed his instep. All while having the other guy's upper body tied up attempting some kind of a takedown.

Ever see how many rings some street toughs like to wear? This has become ubiquitous in at least the biker culture. "Club rings", with their insignia on them, in sharply raised relief. That's not just to look pretty... Every finger of every hand with a big, prominent, square edged (and very sharp) ring on it. Full time "brass knuckles" everywhere they go, 24/7. They are not wearing regulation eight ounce gloves...

No it's not. Not like saying that at all. Horrible analogy.

I think in this regard you are dealing in a fantasy developed under controlled conditions, in a ring, with a ref, with rules. Guys wearing regulation gear specifically meant to reduce harm to one another. A contrived sporting event that kinda looks like a "fight".

The real thing is so, so different. It's now become clear that you have absolutely no idea of how different. Which is a good thing. Believe me, you never want to find out.

So I guess what your saying is that training has no value. Don't train, don't learn martial arts of any kind, because its all just for fun and useless. Just walk around wearing steel toe boots and brass knuckles..... and if you do end up getting in a fight, poke him the eyes or kick him in the balls.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I guess you'd take out John Jones by poking him in the eye.

Its kind of a pointless discussion. I'm arguing about fighting with a guy whos never trained in fighting....

Well Jeff keeps moving the goal post. It started talking about a fight with 2 people on the street, one trained and one untrained, but has now morphed into the untrained guy is a 6'5 sociopath, wearing steel toe boots and brass knuckles with a history of street fighting every Friday night. This is called the "extreme" argument. Why not keep morphing into the untrained guy now has a gun since this occurs "on the street" he shoots the MMA guy and wins. end of story. lol

Why does it always come to this with people like you? Putting words into my mouth, building your little straw man, claiming I've said things I have never even hinted at? :rolleyes:

I have never discounted the value of training. Never. I would defy you to go back and show us where I did that, in this thread. You can't.

Here you go again, this time making unsupported assumptions about me and my level of experience. "Shirley", if I had any training whatsoever, I would share your perspective on this, because you are so obviously right.

I hate to burst your little bubble, but I worked my way through the entire Golden Gloves program as a kid, until I was 18 years old, starting at whatever young age they would let us first sign up (I can't remember, maybe ten? twelve?).

It is partly through that experience in the ring that I have arrived at my position. I had skills. I won fights. I thought I could fight, that I could "handle myself" outside of the ring, in the real world. That's why my dad insisted I sign up. And, well, against your average drunk in a bar or tough guy on the street, that proved to be true.

As I said earlier, though, my world was shaken by what i saw from "the real deal". Guys who are seriously fked up in the head, violent psychos who live to hurt people. I knew right away, despite my training and (compared to many of them) relative youth and fitness, there was no way in hell...

No, this part of the conversation did not start that way. Go back and refresh your memory. It started with speeder explaining how he had never seen a street fight go to ground. No mention whatsoever of any trained fighter vs. street fighter. I first entered this conversation by responding to him, in that context - two street fighters.

I went on to explain (as speeder did) just why we never see these kinds of fights go to ground. Why grappling skills never seem to come to bear. Somewhere along the line, you felt the need to interject someone trained in your sport vs. the street fighter. You are convinced, even having never actually witnessed an honest to God, no holds barred street fight between two vicious psychopaths, that someone trained in your particular discipline would prevail through the use of superior training and skills.

As you continued down that path, I merely tried to clarify, to illustrate, just who you might find yourself up against in such a situation. It's obvious that you are hopelessly naive. I was trying to help you understand, I was not moving any goalposts in any way, shape, or form. I've actually witnessed everything I described. I was trying to help, trying to provide information gleaned through having actually witnessed these things. A "dose of reality", if you will. Things you had clearly not considered, because you have never seen them.

But, no, you very much appear as though you need to "win" some kind of an argument. Typical PPOT conversation with an uninformed, inexperienced contributor desperately trying to argue something with which he has no personal exposure. You have never experienced, never seen fights like those I have, and have tried to describe here. Yet you are absolutely God damned sure you know how it would go. I'm only trying to help, by providing perspective from someone who has seen this.

So drop the straw men, drop the assumptions, drop the veiled insults. They don't help your case. They just make you sound like kind of a dick...

HAHA I was looking for the perfect description. This is it.

Drop the assumptions? LMAO coming from a guy who never met me but just wrote an entire paragraph about my assumed life experience.

Drop the veiled insults? your very next sentence is calling me a dick lol.

I come from a wrestling background. When my sons were hitting puberty I wanted to steer them towards a discipline that was real world and would give them confidence everyday life. I didn’t choose boxing or karate. They wrestled. They both did Judo as well and my oldest son is a Black belt in Judo and a Brown belt in JJ. The last thing I or they would want is to stand and trade punches with someone in a street fight. That’s ludicrous.

If someone who is a trained wrestler can get someone who is not into a wrestling situation, they will tie that person in a knot. No question about it. The problem is that it's not always possible. Imagine if they allowed kicking/punching/elbows/knees in a wrestling match and you get the idea.

Still, wrestling is a great martial art and could be extremely handy in an altercation.

That's quite an accomplishment and your son is a very well rounded fighter, with Judo for excellent take downs, and BJJ for the ground game. I personally think that one solid judo flip would pretty much incapacitate someone if they fell on the concrete.

This was my logic when I took up BJJ. I wanted a solid self defense martial art that would be effective against a larger person. After watching the old UFC and Royce Gracie, I went with BJJ because it was the most effective against other single styles. We all instinctively know how to throw punches and even kick to a degree so when two untrained people fight the winner is usually the bigger, stronger, overall tougher guy.

BJJ neutralizes this because anyone that trains grappling knows that instincts are completely wrong when it comes to ground fighting. It takes years of drilling and sparing to create the muscle memory needed to instinctively move in the correct manner to control a person on the ground. Things like eye pokes and getting kicked in the balls are always possible but very unlikely, and not highly probable against an efficient grappler. These are not new ideas and we train to defend and prevent these common silly techniques that an untrained person may attempt.

I started training in 2010 and got my Black Belt in 2021 so its definitely a long journey and that's training 4-5 days per week.

So is it possible that some random tough guy would get the best of me in a street fight? Absolutely! Street fights are very different and I acknowledge that, however BJJ is predicated on street self defense so I would much rather go into a fight as a conditioned BJJ grappler vs going in with no training and simply relying on physical prowess.

You're clearly far too emotionally invested in this to even think clearly anymore. Beyond being so wrapped up in yourself that you think I "just wrote an entire paragraph about (your) assumed life experiences", you appear to think I have been "arguing" with you.

I've been doing anything but. And the only things I have mentioned about you come from what you have told us about yourself in this very thread. I've made no assumptions about you whatsoever - you have told us (several times) that you have never been involved in any kind of street fighting. I've actually commended you for that, at least a couple of times.

It's clearly been you, and no one else making assumptions. Ignorant, uninformed assumptions in some effort to discount my opinion. You have also made accusations concerning what I have said in this thread, unfounded accusations that you clearly cannot support. I've called you out on both, and you have avoided addressing either.

Again, all I have been attempting to do is to convey the deepest, darkest, ugliest side of street fighting. There are folks out there whom, from your apparently sheltered existence, you simply cannot imagine. A word of warning, if you will. Guys who live for that stuff, who dearly enjoy harming others, and "dress appropriately". The boots, the rings, and so much more.

Just one more example of what is out there: Motorcycle "club" guys have embraced the 16 oz ball peen hammer, because it's not legally a "weapon". Most are felons, and live in fear of a "felon in possession" charge, so they don't carry "weapons" that are legally defined as such. They used to carry a length of "spare chain", but now that most of their bikes are belt drive, that excuse is gone. These guys are creative... I could go on and on regarding what we might be up against if we are ever faced with defending ourselves against one of these psychos.

And that is all I have been trying to do. Shine a little light into the darkest side of this. Why on Earth that has elicited the response I've seen from you is beyond me. You're taking this way, way too personally, getting all butt hurt, leading to your invalid assumptions and accusations in some ego driven need to "win" an argument that only you are having. And, in the end, not even man enough to address the false accusations you have leveled against me, nor the erroneous assumptions you have made about me.

So, yes, you are acting like a real dick, for no apparent reason.