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-   -   Gas stoves...maybe all done? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1132728-gas-stoves-maybe-all-done.html)

island911 01-10-2023 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin (Post 11893603)
Black Stoves Matter!

varmint 01-10-2023 08:44 PM
Split five cords this fall. Probably going to burn them all.

zakthor 01-10-2023 09:11 PM
Did you guys read past the headline before spouting off? Would you laugh at having to mitigate against radon from the ground?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/20/climate/gas-stove-benzene-california.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

What is wanted is a way for people to not be exposed to the gas (not just the combustion byproduct.)

You’re probably fine if you live in an old drafty house, but I’m sure you can imagine installs that are unsafe.

I had the same thought : I love my gas range, my house is drafty, leave me alone. Seems like overreach to just ban them, even if having one can be as bad as living with a smoker. (Eww!)

I wonder what regs would be needed so new gas ranges could be safe? Sounds like something should be done but maybe more clever than a simple ban. Result though will certainly make gas ranges expensive, like emissions controls people are supposed to have on their diesel trucks.

zakthor 01-10-2023 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masraum (Post 11893377)
That's going to be the nice thing about our old stove.

I wonder how the adapters would work with copper pots. I have to assume it would remove a lot of the efficiency. I can't imagine that they'd work as well as a stainless pot with a nice thick ferrous layer that's part of the pot.
Adapter doesn’t remove efficiency. It’s a slab of iron and the current inducts energy into it, which heats the copper. Is exactly like an electric coil stove. You can get the experience of an adapter today by putting your copper pan on a griddle over a gas burner.

I don’t like the buzzing the induction makes. It’ll be jammed down my throat someday but I’m happy with gas.

pavulon 01-11-2023 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 11893207)
I understand it is just anecdotal "evidence" but going back to my mom's mom's parents, my mom, her sister and brother all grew up with those open flame heaters in the house. All un-vented except into the house. None of them had asthma at all. Grandma and grandpa were non smokers as well, heck they did not cuss or drink either. 7 grandkids, and many great grandkkids visited and spent lots of time there. non developed asthma.
Having owned a (then) state of the art but now 100 year old house on the plains of Nebraska, it's obvious that NOTHING accumulated inside. No wall insulation, single pane glass, double hung wood windows with no weather stripping (same with doors) and a walk-up attic all resulted in a continuous draft of exchanging air pushed by the ever-present winds of the plains. The furnace almost never stopped in winter and also almost never caught up to winter. Today's houses are a world apart and I'm sure you're aware of all that but... .

Also, there were no modern bronchodilators to treat asthma a hundred years ago. Humidity tents were about it and that was only available in a hospital. So, lots of people with significant asthma likely did not live much past childhood.

mjohnson 01-11-2023 04:43 AM
It's welcome here. We had a gas outlet in our then electric kitchen back in '12 when we bought the place. Electric glowing glass cooktop went to the curb within weeks to be replaced with gas (I grew up with it, I understand it).

I hate the kitchen, the previous owners must have been high to do it like that.

When we reno - it's going to be induction. I've used it on an industrial scale for decades, but what it does to a pan or a pot, I still giggle at cooking with "magic". Gas is still useful, maybe for my mega-giga-BTU wok cooker outdoors but modern induction isn't your college rental's electric-hot-coily-thing cooktop.

flatbutt 01-11-2023 05:30 AM
So, gas v electric v induction. How much energy is needed to generate and deliver the power for electric and induction cooking vs the energy needed to create and deliver gas?

upsscott 01-11-2023 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 11893125)
The real rationale is an excuse to outlaw gas stoves is largely the same as eliminating gas powered lawn equipment. To reduce the use of fossil fuels so the "climate" fanatics will be appeased.

The "study" was simply a look at statistics and appears to have pretty much just compared how many kids with asthma lived in states where gas stoves are used...but didn't compare other potential causes or mitigating factors.

"We found that 12.7% (95% CI = 6.3–19.3%) of current childhood asthma in the US is attributable to gas stove use (Figure 1). At the state level, the proportion of childhood asthma that could be theoretically prevented if gas stove use was not present (e.g., state-specific PAFs) varied. Illinois experiences the highest burden (21.1%), followed by California (20.1%), New York (18.8%), Massachusetts (15.4%), and Pennsylvania (13.5%). Texas, Colorado, and Ohio all experience burdens around 10%. Florida experiences the lowest burden (3%). The state-level PAFs differ due to varying exposure to gas stoves among children. In Illinois, for example, approximately 79.1% of households with children cook with gas, whereas in Florida, the figure is only 9.1%. States with a higher percentage of children living in households with gas stoves have higher proportions of current childhood asthma attributable to gas stove usage."

I love my battery powered power equipment.

island911 01-11-2023 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakthor (Post 11893622)
Did you guys read past the headline before spouting off? Would you laugh at having to mitigate against radon from the ground?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/20/climate/gas-stove-benzene-california.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

What is wanted is a way for people to not be exposed to the gas (not just the combustion byproduct.)

You’re probably fine if you live in an old drafty house, but I’m sure you can imagine installs that are unsafe.

I had the same thought : I love my gas range, my house is drafty, leave me alone. Seems like overreach to just ban them, even if having one can be as bad as living with a smoker. (Eww!)

I wonder what regs would be needed so new gas ranges could be safe? Sounds like something should be done but maybe more clever than a simple ban. Result though will certainly make gas ranges expensive, like emissions controls people are supposed to have on their diesel trucks.
A lot of the spouting off is from knowledge of the trend. SF has banned gas from new construction, for example. Clearly this is not about safety as there are plenty of methods available to safely handle gas in appliances.

Funny, mitigation of radon became a big thing when houses became too tight, when chasing energy efficiency.

Oh, and fun fact, drafts, in drafty old houses, are primarily caused by natural convection cells forming (poor insulation) and not by air leaks.

Point is, don't think that just because you have a drafty house that you also have good air exchange. (and don't need to worry about radon or other gasses.)

island911 01-11-2023 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upsscott (Post 11893787)
I love my battery powered power equipment.
Go buy a battery powered range.

jyl 01-11-2023 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakthor (Post 11893624)
Adapter doesn’t remove efficiency. It’s a slab of iron and the current inducts energy into it, which heats the copper. Is exactly like an electric coil stove. You can get the experience of an adapter today by putting your copper pan on a griddle over a gas burner.

I don’t like the buzzing the induction makes. It’ll be jammed down my throat someday but I’m happy with gas.
I speculate the iron adapter would slow the response to turning heat up and down? That quick response is what I like most about gas, and is supposed to be a feature of induction too. Doesn't seem like a big negative, can always briefly lift the pan off the burner.

HobieMarty 01-11-2023 08:06 AM
Just the fact that this idiot is one of the "concerned lawmakers" makes me want to run far away from this junk, I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him.
Sorry for the PARFiness but this sounds like another stab at eliminating fossil fuels by the liberals. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...999f7706a8.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

fintstone 01-11-2023 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upsscott (Post 11893787)
I love my battery powered power equipment.
I like to see women without tattoos and guys with short hair...but I would not impose my likes on others.

Me too...I like battery powered lawn tools for the smaller "sissy" type jobs...but need real gas-powered ones for real work. A really good battery only lasts an hour and costs about $350...and is still less powerful. For a hard, 12hr day of work, one would need a few thousand dollars worth of batteries...unless a charger was readily available. Even then, at least a $1000+ in batteries.

IMHO, I have the top of the line (STIHL) in both battery and gas so can make a pretty good comparison.

I like the battery tools, but they are not good for every job and they are not nearly as affordable or flexible as the gasoline ones. What I would not like is being forced to buy them. Especially if poor. They are just expensive toys in comparison (that I can easily afford) for me. That was not always the case.

wdfifteen 01-11-2023 08:15 AM
Our house had a propane cook stove when I was in my formative years. I guess that explains a lot. :D

Wouldn't a vented range hood eliminate the combustion by-products? Requiring a range hood in new construction or remodeling makes more sense that requiring an electric range.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11893313)
Some cities have banned gas ranges in new construction.

I think induction is a decent substitute for gas hobs, but I still prefer gas.
Gas is great to cook on. They'll have to pry my Bosch cooktop out of my cold, carbon monoxide-dead hands.
I've never tried induction, but I'm open to it. They say its faster than gas, with the right cookware. I'm curious how well it would work with my AlClad pots and pans.

fintstone 01-11-2023 08:19 AM
Last year when the power was off here for almost two weeks (coldest weeks of winter) ...having gas logs and cooktop (both propane) was pretty necessary for life. Without those, I would have to pull out the three gas logs (one on each floor) and use firewood which would likely pollute a good deal more. Not to mention all the gas/oil I would use to cut the trees/haul the wood.

wdfifteen 01-11-2023 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HobieMarty (Post 11893890)
Sorry for the PARFiness but ..
If you were really sorry you would delete the post. There is already a thread in PARF for it.

berettafan 01-11-2023 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 11893905)
If you were really sorry you would delete the post. There is already a thread in PARF for it.
It's gotten to the point you just can't ignore it.

flatbutt 01-11-2023 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HobieMarty (Post 11893890)
Just the fact that this idiot is one of the "concerned lawmakers" makes me want to run far away from this junk, I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him.
Sorry for the PARFiness but this sounds like another stab at eliminating fossil fuels by the liberals. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...999f7706a8.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
This guy has been a sack of crap from day one.

zakthor 01-11-2023 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 (Post 11893851)
A lot of the spouting off is from knowledge of the trend. SF has banned gas from new construction, for example. Clearly this is not about safety as there are plenty of methods available to safely handle gas in appliances.

Funny, mitigation of radon became a big thing when houses became too tight, when chasing energy efficiency.

Oh, and fun fact, drafts, in drafty old houses, are primarily caused by natural convection cells forming (poor insulation) and not by air leaks.

Point is, don't think that just because you have a drafty house that you also have good air exchange. (and don't need to worry about radon or other gasses.)
I think you're right. Key is to get area tested. My gut (and heating bill) says I'm ok but without data I'm being a chump.

If only they'd come out with an air quality standard and inexpensive test protocol it'd put the problem and liability in the hands of the people with gas stoves (and owners of large rental complexes). Set the safety expectations and let the market handle it.

The hypothetical is along the lines of the big push for cfc bulbs everywhere. We're sure lucky quality led bulbs came along or we'd be living in a flickering green world.

I really think the 'top down' item by item banning is stupid. Want to do something about co2 you tax it evenly across the board. Bring the price of environmental damage up to the costs its imposing on everyone. Of course first we need to convince the flat earthers that people are causing the earth to warm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11893861)
I speculate the iron adapter would slow the response to turning heat up and down? That quick response is what I like most about gas, and is supposed to be a feature of induction too. Doesn't seem like a big negative, can always briefly lift the pan off the burner.
Yes. Induction adjusts instantly like gas. I still don't like it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatbutt (Post 11893933)
This guy has been a sack of crap from day one.
Agreed. I'm a solid anti-maga and it burns when I see him in the news. Consistently selling a dumb message.

pwd72s 01-11-2023 09:26 AM
Sure is nice to be living here in the land of the free.

"As Government expands-Liberty contracts." -Ronald Reagan


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