The Antikythera Mechanism

[BK911]

Anybody hear of this thing?
2000 year old device found on a shipwreck in the Med.
Very brief description of it:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56377567

Watched an interesting show over the weekend which described the device in more detail.
Long movie and pretty detailed, but IMO absolutely fascinating!!
Only a few minutes on this device, but all the content was pretty cool.



Over 2000 years old, consisting of MANY precision gears, which accurately display and predict astronomical events.
One of the crazy parts is it accurately models the planets orbits, even though most orbits aren't actual circular but elliptical.
How did they know that over 2000 years ago?
And how did they know how to create an elliptical orbit with circular gears?

[Crowbob]

There are more than one fairly recent threads about this.

[masraum]

There's a machinist that's got a long series of videos where he's building one.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0to4RXv4_jDU2

And here's the last thread
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/997714-clock-makers-porn-antikythera-mechanism.html

[BK911]

Sorry guys didn't know this was already discussed.
Thanks for the link.
Previous thread mainly discussed the skill level of re-creator.
Didn't really discuss how this thing was originally built and how the level of knowledge needed to accurately replicate the solar system.
Wasnt the world flat a couple hundred years ago?

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by BK911

Sorry guys didn't know this was already discussed.
Thanks for the link.
Previous thread mainly discussed the skill level of re-creator.
Didn't really discuss how this thing was originally built and how the level of knowledge needed to accurately replicate the solar system.
Wasnt the world flat a couple hundred years ago?

The speculation is that it had to be made for a wealthy scientists. Quite possible Aristotle himself. So a couple of centuries ago!

The ancients were just as smart as we are, and the really bright ones had a great grasp of the sky. There was zero light pollution back then, and the stars and planets were very bright in the night sky.

[oldE]

The last video I saw on the genesis of the device was that it was based on recorded observations of the movements of the planets and our moon. Mathematical calculations allowed the relationships among these to be expressed in gear ratios and displayed on a chart on one of the faces.
Beautiful piece of engineering.

Best
Les

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The speculation is that it had to be made for a wealthy scientists. Quite possible Aristotle himself. So a couple of centuries ago!

The ancients were just as smart as we are, and the really bright ones had a great grasp of the sky. There was zero light pollution back then, and the stars and planets were very bright in the night sky.

Yeah, there have been some very smart folks looking at the sky for a long time.

Yes, virtually no light pollution, and much less of an issue, but I have read that in/near large towns, there was still a pollution problem that obscured the sky. Back in the day everything was heated and lighted by fire which creates smoke, and it only got worse at the beginning of the industrial revolution. All of that smoke is a problem for skywatching.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by BK911

Sorry guys didn't know this was already discussed.
Thanks for the link.
Previous thread mainly discussed the skill level of re-creator.
Didn't really discuss how this thing was originally built and how the level of knowledge needed to accurately replicate the solar system.
Wasnt the world flat a couple hundred years ago?

No worries. I am not 100% up on the click spring video series so I'm not sure if it's done. But if you check out youtube and search for antikythera you'll see that there are a few videos showing a modern reproduction. I suspect that may be the one created by clickspring, or maybe it's from someone else. I'll have to check those out later.

[Skytrooper]

I watched the entire program. I found it facinating. Thanks for sharing

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yeah, there have been some very smart folks looking at the sky for a long time.

Yes, virtually no light pollution, and much less of an issue, but I have read that in/near large towns, there was still a pollution problem that obscured the sky. Back in the day everything was heated and lighted by fire which creates smoke, and it only got worse at the beginning of the industrial revolution. All of that smoke is a problem for skywatching.

Subaru. The Pleiades. The Seven Sisters. 7 stars in a small cluster, which is readily seen in the sky.

Except they aren't. Only 6 of the sisters are seen these days.

Even the Native Americans knew this. The 7 sisters fled from a giant bear, and found refuge on a mesa (Devil's Tower, which still shows the claw marks from the giant bear). Seven Sisters safely stuck up there, in the heavens, far above the ground.

Until there were only 6 sisters. Pollution from the growing European encampments in the New World were adding to the atmospheric dust, until the fainest sister became too faint to see. Then, there were only 6 sisters.

Native folklore took this into account as the smallest sister got to close to the edge of the mesa, and started to fall. The Gods reached down and grasped her, and brought her the rest of the way to heaven to be safe from the great bear. Even today, seeing 7 stars in the cluster with the naked eye is a challenge.

[GH85Carrera]

I was active in our astronomy club for several years. We would go out to the panhandle of Oklahoma, in some of the canyons and it is DARK out there. The ability to see the 7 sisters was an eye test for many centuries. Only someone with near perfect vision has a chance in ideal conditions to see all 7. I managed to see them, and I have seen all the planets. Pluto included back before it was demoted to a planetoid. I got about 1/2 way through the Messier objects before other interest drew me away. I saw the fuzzy little blob of Haley's comet when it first appeared with a 21 inch telescope at a friends back yard in a very dark part of the state.

[BK911]

If you guys like astronomy, that video I embedded above discusses some of the correlations between cultures, religions and zodiacs. For example, Christianity started right about the time when Pisces was prevalent in the sky. That is why the symbol for Christians is the fish. Prior to that there was the Leo, and before that something else I cannot remember. A lot of this info is carved into different pyramids and structures throughout the world. Fascinating stuff.

Matt, if you enjoyed that video than you will probably like Ancient Apocalypse on netflix. Or Graham Hancock stuff on netflix. Really interesting theories backed by a LOT of coincidences.

[Skytrooper]

Thanks , I will be checking them out !

[sc_rufctr]

[BK911]

Nice vid Peter.
Incredible skills in re-creating something so intricate and precise.
Imagine the skills required to design and build the original!!

[Superman]

In sky-watching, altitude matters. Sahale Glacier camp is about 8000 ft elevation and the air is some of the cleanest on the planet, having traveled the width of the Pacific Ocean. Can you see stars from there? Yes you can.

The history of knowledge and thought is absolutely fascinating.

[Tervuren]

Blame Washington Irving for this misconception.
The actual argument Columbus got into was the size of the earth.
He believed it was smaller, and in range of direct line of ships.
Food and water storage along with nutritional break down limited the range of ships.
Columbus falsely believed the far west was in range to the east.
The actual distance was known to scholars; which is why Columbus got rejected from place to place.

Originally Posted by BK911

Wasnt the world flat a couple hundred years ago?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Subaru. The Pleiades. The Seven Sisters. 7 stars in a small cluster, which is readily seen in the sky.

Except they aren't. Only 6 of the sisters are seen these days.

Even the Native Americans knew this. The 7 sisters fled from a giant bear, and found refuge on a mesa (Devil's Tower, which still shows the claw marks from the giant bear). Seven Sisters safely stuck up there, in the heavens, far above the ground.

Until there were only 6 sisters. Pollution from the growing European encampments in the New World were adding to the atmospheric dust, until the fainest sister became too faint to see. Then, there were only 6 sisters.

Native folklore took this into account as the smallest sister got to close to the edge of the mesa, and started to fall. The Gods reached down and grasped her, and brought her the rest of the way to heaven to be safe from the great bear. Even today, seeing 7 stars in the cluster with the naked eye is a challenge.

I'd wondered about the "7" sisters since it's a cluster with far more than 7 stars, and naked eye there's fewer than 7. I am usually looking with binos or a scope.