F1 2023

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Zeke

What F1 race brings more excitement than Montreal did? There was a bit of lawn mowing, pushing and shoving. Not as child like as the Indy Car infants but it wasn't a parade as most seem to be.

If you disregard Max (I did a long time ago), there was a race behind him. Several passes and if Alonso didn't keep you on the edge of your seat, no one will.

I don't pretend to say any F1 race is exciting for the actual racing . Montreal included . Max quickly built up a 3 second lead and coasted the balance of the race . Alonso pushed but was quickly relegated to nothing higher than second . And then he had to start backing off because the team thought he had fuel issues .

I watch F1 for the display of technology. I never expect great racing but sometimes I am surprised . F1 has been trying to make better racing but they have to be mindful of it not being a spec series . Not an easy task . But exciting racing ? HARDLY . Just my opinion .

[Zeke]

You have to take "more excitement" in its own context.
I'm not sure what sport is actually exciting at all unless you have the uniform on. Or perhaps seats in the front row.

"..relegated to nothing higher than second." With RB and Max out front I'd say that was outstanding.

[rfuerst911sc]

For excitement reference I find hockey exciting to watch from puck drop to the end of the game . Racing excitement ? Multi classes on the track at the same time . Just two examples that do it for me .

[astrochex]

Originally Posted by Zeke

What F1 race brings more excitement than Montreal did? There was a bit of lawn mowing, pushing and shoving. Not as child like as the Indy Car infants but it wasn't a parade as most seem to be.

If you disregard Max (I did a long time ago), there was a race behind him. Several passes and if Alonso didn't keep you on the edge of your seat, no one will.

"Indy Car infants"? Indy Car drivers can only aspire to the level of pram rattling that goes on in an F1 weekend.

Unless Red Bull goes sideways, no one is going to touch them the rest of 2023.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by astrochex

"Indy Car infants"? Indy Car drivers can only aspire to the level of pram rattling that goes on in an F1 weekend.

Unless Red Bull goes sideways, no one is going to touch them the rest of 2023.

And what did I say?

[astrochex]

Originally Posted by Zeke

And what did I say?

Originally Posted by Zeke

What F1 race brings more excitement than Montreal did? There was a bit of lawn mowing, pushing and shoving. Not as child like as the Indy Car infants but it wasn't a parade as most seem to be.

fysa

[J-Mac]

I’ve watched and attended and have been an F1 fan for many decades…
I raced cars for a decade…a racing nut
I was watching the San Marino F1 GP on TV live in 94 with my gf when AS went off. I immediately jumped up out of the couch and said f*ck he’s dead. I shed tears.
I’ve seen and heard the V6 turbo, the V8 and V10 F1 cars in person over the years, including a trip to Laguna Seca when they showcased some Ferrari F 1 cars.

What has happened to F1? I just watched the recent Road America Indy car race. Really enjoyed it. close racing to the end. To me their rules allow closer racing and a better spectacle. I think F1 is a lot lost.

[chapo]

Really Zeke? I expect better out of you. You think F1 is that much better than Indy?

[Reg]

The Indy cars could use an update. Better promotion. I like Road America but Detroit was not much of a track for my liking. The Barber and Mid Ohio. Indy and Texas long beach Laguna etc ok. I wish they ran Watkins Glen. Nashville seemed ok.

The ‘Hip Check’ comments on broadcast got to go

Thought I was in Indy thread! Montreal was pretty boring other than qualifying and first lap.

[rfuerst911sc]

While we wait for the next race let's speculate the legitimacy of this rumor .

https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-news-mick-schumacher-hints-at-replacing-failing-driver-mid-season-something-will-develop-in-near-future-lm22

[URY914]

I tried to watch ESPN "The Grandstand" with Daniel Ricciardo and Will Arnett but just couldn't get through 10 minutes. It was like watching a podcast. Just garbage.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

I read a report today that Lew is holding out for 5 years and 250m to stay at Merc. Russell is watching from the sidelines.

Originally Posted by red 928

If I were wolff and hamilton
offered to pay me that much,
I'd let him stay and drive.

As my father used to say: want in one hand and poop in the other and see which one gets full first.

Just let Mick drive and save the money.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Paint is heavy, not worth the performance penalty for a 'just in case they see it' scenario

I've often wondered if they could fog lightweight, opaque, permanent color tints to the CF in the way metals are sometimes fogged onto surfaces at thicknesses measured in microns.

I'm sure if this is something that's possible, then the teams have considered it.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by chapo

Really Zeke? I expect better out of you. You think F1 is that much better than Indy?

I do and I don't like F1 that much. Here's why: Dallara chassis and leased engines. I know there's crap ton of rules to build an F1 car but at least they build some of it themselves as individual teams.

Then there's the drivers. Historically a former F1 driver that has moved to Indy Car has kicked ass. Not everyone, but a majority. Conversely, an Indy Car driver going to F1 hasn't panned out. There was talk of Colton Herta crossing over. I know he's good, but not that good. My prediction is that he won't do well. If he gets stuck with the new Andretti Cadillac he starts off with a huge deficit to begin with.

But that part won't be his fault. Grosjean was a clown in F1 but he won at everything he did prior. He has found a place for his talent in Indy Car. That tells a story right there.

There are 4 different engines in F1 and only 2 for Indy. Teams in F1 are able to fabricated
their own exhaust; Indy does not. F1 can make their own bodies that conform including the underside. Indy can not.

What is the chief complaint about NASCAR? Spec racing. Indy Car is a spec series.

Nevertheless, Indy Car is fun to watch and I give them a plus over F1 in that regard. NASCAR is fun to watch on most tracks (not the short tracks for me) because of how they manage the air off other cars. In open wheel the distance must remain on large portions of the track due to loss of downforce if too close.

Every form of racing is full of strategy and understanding that makes each type of racing more interesting. Qualifying for the Indy 500 is one of the most intense challenges in racing. I wonder what that would be like if F1 cars were substituted.

F1 qualifying is already intense. NASCAR should just forgo qualifying. If they want to keep their segment racing they should add up the finishing points of the first 2 and start the final segment based on cumulative points.

What might be cool is to draw for position for the first of 4 segments and add the finishing points for segments 2 and 3 for a final main race. Segment 2 lines up the way segment 1 finished. Same for S3, as finished in 2. Then total points places the cars in S4.

F1 qualifying almost works in that fashion. But it doesn't because some drivers are eliminated. NASCAR at Daytona is close with the qualifying races, but that can be done all in one day, one overall race.

That was more answer than you wanted, huh?

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by URY914

I tried to watch ESPN "The Grandstand" with Daniel Ricciardo and Will Arnett but just couldn't get through 10 minutes. It was like watching a podcast. Just garbage.

Yeah, that was awful. I bailed after 5 minutes

[stealthn]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

While we wait for the next race let's speculate the legitimacy of this rumor .

https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-news-mick-schumacher-hints-at-replacing-failing-driver-mid-season-something-will-develop-in-near-future-lm22

I gotta think they would give the rookie at least a year (or more) to get used to it. Mick isn’t exactly a veteran.

[red 928]

At least mick can hit the wall fast.
Sargeant can't even do that.

[Adrian Thompson]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I do and I don't like F1 that much. Here's why: Dallara chassis and leased engines. I know there's crap ton of rules to build an F1 car but at least they build some of it themselves as individual teams.

You're comparing apples to kumquats. F1 team, especially the top ones are struggling to stay within the paltry $135m per team budget, that's $67.5m per car. Even the very top Indy car teams are spending $7-10m per car, possibly as high as $13-15 for Pensky, but that's the high side of the rumors. And while the uber geeks like us and others know the differences in the cars ad-nauseam, the average person doesn't, and doesn't care. Even with the massive popularity of 'Drive to survive' many still don't the difference. I know car geeks, Porsche owners included, who've even been to a race or two over the decades who don't know the difference between Indy car and F1. Indy car used to have multiple chassis, but other than the top 2-3 teams they were still customer chassis, just like F1 was up until the late 70's. Tony George tried his very best to kill open wheel racing in the States and all but succeeded with his stupid ill advised split. The result was that NASCAR won the hearts and minds while Indy car imploded to almost annihilation. The sponsors left in droves and there simply wasn't the money to keep multiple chassis and the resultant arms race they allow for in $$'s for development. It's not perfect, but it makes for outstanding racing.

Originally Posted by Zeke

Then there's the drivers. Historically a former F1 driver that has moved to Indy Car has kicked ass.

Which ones? The last one I recall kicking ass was Mansel. He was the raining F1 champ, went to CART and won the championship, in far less convincing style than he won in F1. The next year he had the wrong chassis and didn't win a single race before quitting. MAybe you mean the likes of Andretti, Jacques Villeneuve, JPM etc? Nope, they all kicked ass in Indy car before moving to F1, then in the case of Andretti they came back to Indy car. Bobby Rahal? YEs he kicked ass in Indy car, but he had exactly two F1 races in crappy year old Wolf's, hardly an F1 career. Zanardi? Maybe, but he could just as easily stayed in F1, and he never had a front running car. Emerson Fittipaldi? Sure, but what did you expect from a two time F1 champ and a two time runner up? Yup, he had a hell of a career in Indy car two, winning one championship and coming runner up twice. And if anyone thinks that someone like Scott Dixon or AJ Foyt couldn't have been contenders for F1 championships if with a front running team then they're delusional. Yes, people like Rossi have far more success in Indy car, but that's because they've got into a front running team, rather than a handful of races in a back marker team.

Originally Posted by Zeke

Not everyone, but a majority. Conversely, an Indy Car driver going to F1 hasn't panned out. There was talk of Colton Herta crossing over. I know he's good, but not that good. My prediction is that he won't do well. If he gets stuck with the new Andretti Cadillac he starts off with a huge deficit to begin with.

OTher than Andretti, Montoya, Villeneuve Jr etc. But why let facts interfere with opinion.

Originally Posted by Zeke

But that part won't be his fault. Grosjean was a clown in F1 but he won at everything he did prior. He has found a place for his talent in Indy Car. That tells a story right there.

LOL, Ro Gro is still RoGro in Indy car. Far from being a major player in Indy car, he has yet to win a race, and the silly season news this year seems to have gone from 'being in talks for renewal' with Andretti, to silence on that front and in major **** with his boss for the number of unforced errors costing them huge $$'s in lost results and accident damage. He's also far behind his team mates Herta (who's having a ****ty year) and Kirkwood in the standings. Last year he was also several places behind team mates Herta and Rossi in the standings. And again, don't hold up Rossi as a successful cross over, I hardly count five F1 starts in no hoper cars as an F1 career.

Originally Posted by Zeke

There are 4 different engines in F1 and only 2 for Indy. Teams in F1 are able to fabricated
their own exhaust; Indy does not. F1 can make their own bodies that conform including the underside. Indy can not.

What is the chief complaint about NASCAR? Spec racing. Indy Car is a spec series.

REally, so what? F1 is all but unique these days in not just allowing, but insisting on unique chassis, great, but it's budgets literally 5-10 times. Racing value for money, Indy wins hands down.

I'm not a die hard Indy only fan, I'm an ex pat Brit who grew up never missing an F1 race. I watched my whole life. The first race I have specific memories of was the British Grand Prix in 79. I was so proud that a British car won the British Grand Prix with a British driver, until my parents pointed out to 10 year old me that Alan Jones was an Aussie!!! I was obsessed by F1 until the turn of the century, since when, with a few curve balls for Alonso, Kimi, and Button, we've basically had a race for second place. The technical aspect is still fascinating, but the racing is boring. While Indy car doesn't have the awesome arms race of unbridled technology, it's a fascinating series with a massive variety of tracks. Super speedways, short ovals, road courses and street courses. Yes some of the street courses are a bit micky mouse, but Detroit raced better than expected, and lets face it Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, and Miami are also pretty crap.

I don't mean to get preachy, but I get really tired of people putting down Indy car and especially it's drivers as being somehow inferior. Its a different product, and I believe the top 10 and bottom 10 drivers in each series are broadly similar in talant. Indy may be lacking a Verstappen or a HAmilton, but if anyone thinks a Dixon, Palou, Herta, O'Ward wouldn't have been successful in a top F1 team they are deluding themselves.

[matthewb0051]

The FIA is considering imposing more severe restrictions on pre-race grid access in Formula 1 after safety concerns were raised following this month's Spanish Grand Prix.

Seems that Neymar (Jr) the footballer from Brazil with the American suffix fixation and also the guy that flops on the ground as if he has been shot if another player gets close to him... was on the grass with mechanics when the formation lap began. See photo in article linked below.

https://f1i.com/news/478315-fia-set-to-restrict-pre-race-grid-access-for-f1-guests.html

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Adrian Thompson

You're comparing apples to kumquats.

Likely true

While Indy car doesn't have the awesome arms race of unbridled technology, it's a fascinating series with a massive variety of tracks. Super speedways, short ovals, road courses and street courses. Yes some of the street courses are a bit micky mouse, but Detroit raced better than expected, and lets face it Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, and Miami are also pretty crap.

I don't mean to get preachy, but I get really tired of people putting down Indy car and especially it's drivers as being somehow inferior. Its a different product, and I believe the top 10 and bottom 10 drivers in each series are broadly similar in talant. Indy may be lacking a Verstappen or a HAmilton, but if anyone thinks a Dixon, Palou, Herta, O'Ward wouldn't have been successful in a top F1 team they are deluding themselves.

All likely true. I think you actually validated some of my points as well as adding a few of your own why F1 is better. But I don't care. You can have the win.