F1 2023

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Nearly 100 years of F1 experience with those 3 guys, all well respected within F1

Now Alpine has 1 guy at the top with 1 year of F1 experience from working on the slowest engine on the grid

Yes it's far from ideal.. The slowest engine part is about to be addressed by the FIA though.

Now playing devil's advocate for a second...
The alpine pit wall kinda looked like a collection of blokes who could not afford a haircut or nice shoes. I'm sure they were all competent but possibly not top notch, like the mechanics that service your Daily Dacia Logan but not your Ferrari ? Let's see who hires them if it's Mercedes and Redbull I'll walk this back ! So far one went to williams, meh.

One could say they're been hanging there or thereabouts for 10y now as Lotus, renault, alpine, 1 step forward, one step back, 1 fantastic race that gives you hope and next year poof, the soufflé collapses. While I do think they cut too wide too quick without a clear replacement plan, maybe just maybe a fresh start was needed to move things in a different direction, seems to me the pitwall bosses got their chance over many years and if you left them there, alpine would be fighting for 4th... 5yrs from now still. Continuing with the same and expecting different results is madness, no? Maybe they need Binotto and new people. Can't be much worse !

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by red 928

I looked as closely as I could at the damage on Sainz's car.
It looked like a large puncture to the side pod,
and some damage to the floor.

I wondered if the significant loss of pace was due
to the floor or the side pod or both?

And that led to a question:
why doesn't F1 use that sticky thick tape to repair
cars like every other form of motorsport does?
I've been watching F1 for several decades and don't recall
ever seeing it used.

If the damage to the side pod was affecting the aero,
seems like a couple slabs of that tape would have
it fixed in a jiffy (a jiffy is roughly 5 seconds).
If the floor was the only problem I doubt sticky tape
would help much


So, is that tape against the rules or just too redneck
for the snooty F1 types?

No snobbery towards race tape, F1 is big time motor racing, not hicks moonshine runnin

If you're stopping to tape up a car, by the time it's all fixed the driver would be so far behind in the race, the team would be wasting engine mileage for zero points

I've successfully taped up worse damage than that in the early hours of a Rouen 24hr powerboat race

Driver broke the front part of the cockpit. Needed more than just race tape, had to hacke up a 10 gallon Castrol oil drum, used pop-rivets and silicone too as it was a structural repair.

Boat lasted another 6hrs before the driver tried to sink the boat again, that damage couldn't be repaired with race tape, so he was out of the race

[CurtEgerer]

So it's Andretti-Cadillac in some sort of partnership with Alpine .... according to Sports Illustrated yesterday.

[GH85Carrera]

That is interesting. I wonder what the team name will be. It can’t have three names all hyphened together.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

So it's Andretti-Cadillac in some sort of partnership with Alpine .... according to Sports Illustrated yesterday.

I think this rumor has merit . Alpine cleaned house at the top . Andretti wants into F1 . Alpine had already stated they would supply Renault engines to Andretti if he's granted entry .
I think the waiting game is on the FIA to announce any new entries for 2025 . And an unknown is what does Renault think about the $$$ invested in F1 vs the return . Maybe a buyout or partnership is easier for shareholders to stomach . Will be interesting to see if this rumor has legs .

[917_Langheck]

And what role would Cadillac play in this ménage à trois? None that I can fathom.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by 917_Langheck

And what role would Cadillac play in this ménage à trois? None that I can fathom.

Just a place to dump cash, and stick their name on things, and have a lot of advertising. They are chasing the younger market demographic. Right now if you want a high performance GM car with a manual transmission forget Corvette, only automatics. You have to buy a Caddy to get a manual. Same Corvette engine, just a Caddy nameplate.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Just a place to dump cash, and stick their name on things, and have a lot of advertising. They are chasing the younger market demographic. .

Maybe they should try to make their cars NOT look like stealth fighters.

I've never understood their designs (recent ones). Plus I can't get it out of my head that their cars are just tarted up Chevys with hefty price tags that don't hold value or quality over time like a German or Japanese high end car.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by 917_Langheck

And what role would Cadillac play in this ménage à trois? None that I can fathom.

Michael Andretti has stated short term Cadillac will be heavily involved with chassis design . Years of experience in Indy car from Andretti and years of success in IMSA for Cadillac could be a good marriage .

Cadillac has stated they want to build their own F1 engines . If the team is granted F1 access . The role gets muddy if they partner with Alpine . A straight up buyout of Alpine could reopen the door for Cadillac to be an engine supplier by 2026 . All speculation at this point .

[red 928]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

No snobbery towards race tape, F1 is big time motor racing, not hicks moonshine runnin

If you're stopping to tape up a car, by the time it's all fixed the driver would be so far behind in the race, the team would be wasting engine mileage for zero points

Better to lose 5 seconds a lap until the car is so far back,
they have to retire it.
it wouldn't take much longer than it takes to replace a front wing.

My bet is the floor was the problem even
though I don't see it in the pics.

[917_Langheck]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Michael Andretti has stated short term Cadillac will be heavily involved with chassis design . Years of experience in Indy car from Andretti and years of success in IMSA for Cadillac could be a good marriage .

Cadillac has stated they want to build their own F1 engines . If the team is granted F1 access . The role gets muddy if they partner with Alpine . A straight up buyout of Alpine could reopen the door for Cadillac to be an engine supplier by 2026 . All speculation at this point .

Well, Dallara is the primary constructor of the Cad chassis, so that leaves the engine as the primary bring to the table by Cad, and that billet has been already filled by Renault. I doubt F1 ownership would back the purchase of Renault/Alpine just to delete the Alpine name and install Andretti/Cad/GM, though it has happened with non-manufacturer teams before.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by 917_Langheck

Well, Dallara is the primary constructor of the Cad chassis, so that leaves the engine as the primary bring to the table by Cad, and that billet has been already filled by Renault. I doubt F1 ownership would back the purchase of Renault/Alpine just to delete the Alpine name and install Andretti/Cad/GM, though it has happened with non-manufacturer teams before.

Dallara builds the F1 chassis for HAAS now. If you have a large enough checkbook, and a wiz at design just go to Indianapolis and they will make you what ever you want.

We got to tour the factory in Indy where they make every single Indy car chassis. They would not allow us to take photos, and the real build area was walled of from our prying eyes. Two guys showed up in a large pickup, and the two of them walked out the door carrying a new chassis.

Amazing carbon fiber work. Cool tour.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by 917_Langheck

I doubt F1 ownership would back the purchase of Renault/Alpine just to delete the Alpine name and install Andretti/Cad/GM, though it has happened with non-manufacturer teams before.

Actually I would not be surprised if they took a partial ownership - think Audi and Sauber;-) Mohamed wants GM in F1, the financial owners of F1 want them in, and an american owner (not Haas). It's just the Totos of the paddock that don't want prize money dilution..

The way Alpine is falling apart right right now in terms of management, I say bring on Andretti and GM, I could see them selling a % to Cadillac/andretti and have them commit to Enstone for chassis and just supply the engine for a while (which will be brought to parity shortly thanks to the FIA). See how it goes, let cadillac put some more $ in the aero as everyone knows Renault is not funding it enough... Maybe 2026 do a caddy badged engine. And possibly sell it outright in 2026 after alpine is done releasing its new electric cars (pretty cool ones actually) and doesn't need the advertising anymore..

The amusing thing is cadillac has made pretty good cars for a while now, getting excellent reviews (CTSV, CT4, whatrever they are) but nobody cares or wants them. The image could do them good.

Anyway just thoughts.

[917_Langheck]

Well, I'm all for more cars on the grid, and if that pisses of Toto, that's a nice added bonus.

[GH85Carrera]

Pretty funny.

[rfuerst911sc]

Some rumors starting that Carlos Sainz has signed a pre contract with another F1 team . Audi/Sauber ? Another rumor is Binnoto will join Alpine after the summer break .

[GH85Carrera]

[astrochex]

There were fewer races in the 2002 season (17 races) versus this seasons 23 races, different point structure, blah, blah, blah.

Good for Sainz and Ferrari if that is what he wants to do.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Yes it's far from ideal.. The slowest engine part is about to be addressed by the FIA though.

Now playing devil's advocate for a second...
The alpine pit wall kinda looked like a collection of blokes who could not afford a haircut or nice shoes. I'm sure they were all competent but possibly not top notch, like the mechanics that service your Daily Dacia Logan but not your Ferrari ? Let's see who hires them if it's Mercedes and Redbull I'll walk this back ! So far one went to williams, meh.

One could say they're been hanging there or thereabouts for 10y now as Lotus, renault, alpine, 1 step forward, one step back, 1 fantastic race that gives you hope and next year poof, the soufflé collapses. While I do think they cut too wide too quick without a clear replacement plan, maybe just maybe a fresh start was needed to move things in a different direction, seems to me the pitwall bosses got their chance over many years and if you left them there, alpine would be fighting for 4th... 5yrs from now still. Continuing with the same and expecting different results is madness, no? Maybe they need Binotto and new people. Can't be much worse !

There is much I could elaborate on but won't

Seen and heard most of what's happened first hand with my own eyes and ears

The arrogance of a few people who think they know F1 but in reality haven't got a clue is a destructive force and no good will come of it

This is worth a read..

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/alpines-f1-hopes-look-dim-after-suits-sacked-szafnauer/

[GH85Carrera]

Ouch! That is a slapdown.