Cross-threading lug nuts

[Noah930]

What am I doing wrong?

On the Odyssey, it's gotten to the point where almost every time I do a tire rotation (with each oil change), one of the lug nuts has seized on its wheel bolt. I use a breaker bar to literally snap the nut off with the bolt. This only happens on a front--never the rear.

The first time it occurred was when we took in the minivan to patch a nail in a tire. The tire shop couldn't get the wheel off and suggested the previous wrench (me) cross-threaded the lug. I've never done it before in any other car I've worked on, and with no power tools at home, I hand thread on the nuts every time and torque down appropriately. I'll re-torque a day or two later. Since that episode, I am vigilant about not cross-threading the lug nuts, yet still I'll get one almost every oil change that seizes to the wheel stud.

I do all my own oil changes/tire rotations, so no one else to blame.

All parts are Honda parts.

This never happens to any other car.

It's always one of the front wheels, but it'll vary from wheel stud to wheel stud (not always the same one).

The last straw was when the car was taken in to an indy mechanic for a replacement of the steering rack. He had to take the front wheels off in the process to patch a nail in the tire. Two weeks later, I did an oil change at home, and again one of a front lug nut was seized. So I don't think it's just me (the shadetree hack) to blame.

What gives?

[pwd72s]

Might be in the lug nut itself? Not necessarily the thread, but the part of the nut that meets the wheel? Check for flaws there? Also, a light coat of Never-Seeze on the part of the nut (curved shoulder) that meets the wheel won't hurt. A P-car pro tech gave me that never-seeze tip decades ago...

(edit) I used to always use a breaker bar/socket to remove lug nuts. Then put 'em on finger tight, only use the torque wrench to torque on in a staggered pattern. Today, age 79? It's only a Mustang or a Toyota...I hire it done. My "give a krap" meter is stuck at close to zero.

[908/930]

You are not cross threading them, once you do that they are junk. Likely as pwd72 mentioned something is going on where the nut contacts the rim.

[URY914]

When angle of the seat of the wheel doesn't match the angle of the bolt seat. Another words what they said^^^

[Scott Douglas]

I used to do rotations too, on my Honda's.
I found that most times it was caused by the lugs shaving aluminum off the rim hole. Hard to see on the bottom side of the lug.
Couple weeks ago the tire shop ran into the same thing and I was lucky enough to be watching and caught them before they put the impact gun on it to thread it on. Lead thread on the nut had gotten garffed up so it wouldn't go on by hand. Looked like embedded aluminum may have been the culprit.

[rfuerst911sc]

While not everyone will agree with me I have been using anti seize on lug nuts/bolts for a very long time . Sometimes I use silicone grease . On the threads and the nut face that touches the wheel . Been doing it for 40+ years .

I have never had an issue removing them . I have never had one come loose . This is on cars/trucks/sports cars . With aluminum lug nuts or steel . With alloy wheels or steel . I always torque to spec and recheck randomly . Again never an issue .

[pwd72s]

^Sure can't argue with that...whatever works for you. Sure sounds like in this case, something going on where the lug nut & the wheel meet.

[908/930]

I did a quick search and it looks like on some Honda's they use a ball surface and on some they have a regular conical nut, take a good look and see if the nut mating surface matches the rim.

[Arizona_928]

Was going through a lot of lug nuts at the mejican tire shops on my Ram.

I watched the elementary school kid not have the lug threaded on all the way before they hit it with the impact....

[911 Rod]

Anti-seize

[aschen]

we have an 13 odyssey, do all the maint DIY. I have never had this problem. I usually zip them off with cordless impact and retighten with torque wrench to 100 ftlbs.

Wonder if you have a rolled up or damaged thread in one of the lugnuts traveling around damaging the studs.

For piece of mind may be worth running a thread chaser over the studs and getting a new set of lugnuts just because. I can't image what else it could be, studs or nuts.

[KFC911]

Can you start marking (Sharpie) both the offending stud and nut when it happens again.... mebbe that will point you to the culprit.

It'll probably cause it to never happen again too

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by Noah930

What am I doing wrong?

On the Odyssey, it's gotten to the point where almost every time I do a tire rotation (with each oil change), one of the lug nuts has seized on its wheel bolt. I use a breaker bar to literally snap the nut off with the bolt. This only happens on a front--never the rear.

The first time it occurred was when we took in the minivan to patch a nail in a tire. The tire shop couldn't get the wheel off and suggested the previous wrench (me) cross-threaded the lug. I've never done it before in any other car I've worked on, and with no power tools at home, I hand thread on the nuts every time and torque down appropriately. I'll re-torque a day or two later. Since that episode, I am vigilant about not cross-threading the lug nuts, yet still I'll get one almost every oil change that seizes to the wheel stud.

I do all my own oil changes/tire rotations, so no one else to blame.

All parts are Honda parts.

This never happens to any other car.

It's always one of the front wheels, but it'll vary from wheel stud to wheel stud (not always the same one).

The last straw was when the car was taken in to an indy mechanic for a replacement of the steering rack. He had to take the front wheels off in the process to patch a nail in the tire. Two weeks later, I did an oil change at home, and again one of a front lug nut was seized. So I don't think it's just me (the shadetree hack) to blame.

What gives?

Alarick,

When you replace the stud are you pulling new ones in with the lugnut and a spacer or washer stack or pressing them through using a ball joint tool through the hub? I know you said its not always the same one. Pulling them on with a spacer or washers and lugnut can damage the thread crests.

Most of the time its cheap metal or poor heat treat when studs fail or break. Nuts usually start with galling.

Not sure what year your Honda is but enough comes up on searchs that these tend to be an ongoing issue for the past 20 years of this model.

[Mike Andrew]

Same issue with my 2020 Forester. Every damm tire rotation, another lug/stud issue. Different shops recently. However, seems to have started after new tires were installed by a chain tire center rather than my usual routine of Tire Rack and preferred installer.
I will ask for anti seize at next rotation/oil change and the old stud/lug nut as one will surely break.

[Noah930]

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all the advice for this puzzling problem. It's a 2010 Odyssey, but the problem didn't arise until about 5 or so years ago. So no problems the first half of its lifetime.

I'll try hitting each lug and nut with a wire brush to make sure there's no debris in the threads. Check the ball seat in the wheel to see if that might be the issue. I don't have a ball joint tool, so I usually use a drift to tap the stud into place from behind. Maybe try anti-seize, too. It's gotta be some sort of debris mucking up the threads.

[porsche tech]

We have a 2011 Odyssey with 137K miles on which I have done every maintenance, including rotating tires every O/C. First go round I put a little anti-seize on the studs and have never had any problem (other than my old self picking the wheel/tire up to put it back on). Man, they’re getting heavier every time I do it!

[wdfifteen]

I used to rotate my own tires on my 2003 Tundra and now and then noticed thread damage and some recalcitrant nuts going on and off, usually after they had loosened half a turn or so.
The problem I was having was rust on the exposed threads. I started shooting the exposed threads wax-based corrosion inhibitor. It helped, but most of the damage was already done. It was really aggravating when they didn't cooperate, but I never replaced the studs (lazy).

Then a tire shop broke a stud off while installing new front tires. Fortunately they didn't have a new stud on hand, if they had they would probably have just changed it and charged me a few bucks. They parked the truck outside while I went to the Toyota dealer and bought 12 new studs and nuts and had them change all of them. When it was time for new rear tires I showed up with 12 new studs and nuts for the rear.
They aren't that expensive.
I always shot the new studs with wax-based corrosion inhibitor and never had another problem.

.

[unclebilly]

My 2018 WRX was terrible for this. The Subaru lug nuts seem to be made of the worst Chinesium possible.

Fortunately they were easy to change and inexpensive. After the first one screwed up, I bought 4 from the dealer and 4 lug nuts. In the course of my short ownership, I used them all.

The 2018 Tribeca we had didn’t have this issue.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Mike Andrew

Same issue with my 2020 Forester. Every damm tire rotation, another lug/stud issue. Different shops recently. However, seems to have started after new tires were installed by a chain tire center rather than my usual routine of Tire Rack and preferred installer.
I will ask for anti seize at next rotation/oil change and the old stud/lug nut as one will surely break.

Same as my 2018 WRX. It’s a Subaru thing.