Tourist mini sub missing off titanic

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by berettafan

It's funny when i see public discussions on subjects i truly know about (tax for example) i am astonished at the level of ignorance (true meaning of the word) i see on display. I would imagine structural engineers are feeling the same about now.

Agree. I’m sure you enjoy reading confident expert tax policy analysis…which is wrong. It’s the confidence part that stands out. My limited knowledge is in diagnostic imaging. Not a frequent topic but it’s always interesting to read the words of “experts”.

Word to the wise. Believe nothing on face value.

[berettafan]

Choco it shakes your confidence in ALL media.

[Mahler9th]

"My limited knowledge is in diagnostic imaging."

More "the world is small."

I started in this field right after high school as a summer engineering student in the 70's..

Systems engineering.

GE.

Third summer I learned a lot about MFG support (GE CT/T 8800 production) and about ENG/MFG transfer (about to be released CT/T 9800).

I first learned about carbon fiber composites that summer (1980)... related to the construction of the CT/T 9800 CAT scanner.

Fourth summer, GE's first DSA system.

I learned a lot.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Word to the wise. Believe nothing on face value.

It is all:



There is, however, in this thread, some excellent insights (not me, duh).

[Mahler9th]

Perhaps of interest:

https://www.doermarine.com/?page_id=704

"The process of classing and peer review is another area where the Deepsearch Program is fundamentally different from experimental submersibles. There is much to be learned from experimentation; remarkable breakthroughs have been had via the ” let’s just do it” philosophy inventors sometimes embrace. Yet unless that information is shared and leveraged, it will always be limited in value. By engaging with a peer review body such as Lloyds, ABS, or GL, sub sea vehicles become inherently safer through the discipline of testing, record keeping and safety protocols. Even an experimental craft can be built to meet the intent of class which helps pave the way when a classed build is undertaken. Deepsearch and Ocean Explorer are both classed builds."

The company founder might likely be considered an expert. She was apparently the keynote speaker at a conference likely attended by one of my good friends just a few years ago.

Shortly after that time, Mr. Rush's company announced a raise of an additional $18m.

He was likely at the conference-- almost certainly.

Space exploration and deep sea exploration.... very different in this part of the 21st century and going forward.

Which provides a "better" dopamine release... speculating/commenting about these types of things, or forming questions and hypotheses and going on to learn?

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by J-Mac

I have to believe that, deep down, he knew he was wrong.

Disagree. My guess is that deep down, he thought he knew better than those stodgy (sissy?) experts who told him he wasn't right. He thought he was right up until that hull creaked the moment before it imploded.

[J-Mac]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Disagree. My guess is that deep down, he thought he knew better than those stodgy (sissy?) experts who told him he wasn't right. He thought he was right up until that hull creaked the moment before it imploded.

True that, perhaps my tense was wrong…maybe, deep down, he knows he was wrong.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by berettafan

It's funny when i see public discussions on subjects i truly know about (tax for example) i am astonished at the level of ignorance (true meaning of the word) i see on display. I would imagine structural engineers are feeling the same about now.

I see the same thing in a different (different from taxation) popular topic.

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

.... It’s the confidence part that stands out....

Indeed. Certain and inflexible and arrogant confidence in topics only thinly understood while the actual experts are more circumspect.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

There is, however, in this thread, some excellent insights (not me, duh).

Like this. Like Seahawk here. Listening with humility. It shows far greater understanding that haughty confidence.

[Alan A]

And that’s why Mr Dunning and Mr Kruger got a paper published back in 2011.

[FOG]

I just have the ME degree and only used it as needed as a Marine after that. No PE.

I saw on the news a clip of people being bolted in. The guy doing it was using a ratchet vice torque wrench and was going around clock-wise vice a torque pattern. As this is car forum how many would not question this method of tightening the bubble?

S/F, FOG

[otto_kretschmer]

I'm a Scott Manley fan

[speeder]

Originally Posted by J-Mac

True that, perhaps my tense was wrong…maybe, deep down, he knows he was wrong.

Well, deep down is definitely where he was when he found out. So did they ever find out what the rhythmic sound patterns were? Darwin clapping?

Sorry…kind of soon.

[stevej37]

[QUOTE=speeder;12030587] So did they ever find out what the rhythmic sound patterns were? Darwin clapping?


From the Titanic.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Adhesive for the end cap rings applied by hand with bondo spreaders, and apparently not done in a vacuum chamber and with the assembly spinning in order to evenly distribute the adhesive and lesson air bubbles in it (and with glue being the only fastener used? Wow!)- nutz, considering the intended use of that thing.

May I'm missing something but, since the vehicle was withstanding pressure from the outside, it doesn't need adheseive to hold the end caps in place. That's was was accomplished by the pressure of the ocean. The risk would be in the center of the body withstanding implosion.

[Mahler9th]

Perhaps of interest:

https://www.marinetechnologynews.com/news/manned-submersible-built-explore-551695

"The pressure vessel is comprised of two titanium hemispheres, two matching titanium rings, and a 56” diameter, 100” long carbon fiber wound cylinder – the largest such device ever built for use in a manned submersible. In this latest milestone event, the two titanium rings were permanently bonded to the ends of the carbon fiber wound center cylinder to form the core of the pressure vessel.

“The bonding of the titanium rings to the carbon fiber cylinder is a major milestone in the construction of Cyclops 2. The accuracy of the alignment and the integrity of the bonds were critical to maintaining exacting engineering tolerances,” said Tony Nissen, OceanGate’s Director of Engineering. “The precision we achieved guarantees that we have solid foundation to work with as we continue assembly of the sub.”

and:

https://www.compositesworld.com/news/oceangate-to-build-two-new-deep-sea-submersibles

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters

"The design of the Cyclops 2 hull, says Spencer, is based in large part on the strategy applied to Fossett’s DeepFlight Challenger. Thickness, he says, was estimated using micromechanics, and then verified with finite element analysis (FEA). Modeling was done in SolidWorks (Dassault Systèmes, Waltham, MA, US) and analysis was done with COSMOS/M, supplied by Dassault Systèmes subsidiary Structural Research and Analysis Corp. (Santa Monica, CA, US).

The biggest challenge, Spencer reports, was developing a manufacturable design that “would produce a consistent part with no wrinkles, voids or delaminations.” And without use of an autoclave. Spencer opted for a layup strategy that combines alternating placement of prepreg carbon fiber/epoxy unidirectional fabrics in the axial direction, with wet winding of carbon fiber/epoxy in the hoop direction, for a total of 480 plies. The carbon fiber is standard-modulus Grafil 37-800 (30K tow), supplied by Mitsubishi Chemical Carbon Fiber & Composites Inc. (Irvine, CA, US). Prepreg was supplied by Irvine-based Newport Composites, now part of Mitsubishi Chemical Carbon Fiber & Composites Inc. The wet-winding epoxy is Epon Resin 682 from Hexion Inc. (Columbus, OH, US). The curing agent is Lindride LS-81K frLindau Chemicals Inc.cals (Columbia, SC, US).

Initial design work indicated that the hull, to be rated for 4,000m depth with a 2.25 safety factor, should be 114 mm thick or 4.5 inches, which OceanGate opted to round up to 5 inches (127 mm) to build in an additional safety margin."


At least one report I read suggested that some technical and scientific experts suggested that the finished DeepFlight Challenger should only be used once at Challenger Deep depth.

And I think Mr. Cameron referred to the DeepFlight Challenger in recent interviews, stating that he warned its second owner not to use it.

[Mahler9th]

Triton's 13k foot product with wings:

https://tritonsubs.com/subs/gullwing/?dc=ultradeep

Two-seater with ACRYLIC hull.

"The World’s Deepest Diving Acrylic Sub

The Triton 13000/2 Titanic Explorer is the only acrylic-hulled submersible commercially certified for dives in excess of 13,000 ft.

Like all other Tritons, it takes advantage of our exclusive manufacturing process to produce the world’s only completely colourless, optically perfect hulls.

Featuring zero-distortion, Triton hulls are the preferred choice of high-end filmmakers."


I wonder about the IP.

[Mahler9th]

Chart from Triton sales/marketing literature:

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

Over 26,000 pounds in weight - amazing! I'm guessing a VW Bus won't be able to tow it?!?!

[otto_kretschmer]

some useful info from this video

The carbon fiber looks to be all hoops and no diagonals.