Tourist mini sub missing off titanic

[Zeke]

Growing up with game controllers has produced a new class of surgeons that adapt to the da Vinci Robot Surgical System much more readily than an older doc with no gaming experience and learning the system post residency or mid career.

Odd as it may seem, the owner/pilot belongs to the latter group. That may very well never have entered into the cause of the disaster, but we will never know for sure. W/o the data collection intact, we don't know things like rate of descent, if that matters.

"And other stuff."

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I agree.

In the drone world game controllers are the standard for many, many reasons. I tried almost 20 years ago to make game controllers the standard for Navy UAS.

Once you get crushed by your eight year old playing a "game" (all drones are essentially first person shooter games) it begins to make sense.

We also did a lot of work with NATO on standardizing ground control station interfaces to enable game controllers.

Kids know and they don't look at the controller.

Interesting. Are they off the shelf game controllers or game controllers specifically made for purpose?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by masraum

Interesting. Are they off the shelf game controllers or game controllers specifically made for purpose?

It depends, really. The controllers are essentially "hardened" to made them more robust in DoD and civilian applications. I am listening to two of our software folks discuss this as I type. Like a lot of applications, we are most concerned about operator interface with the drone when things go wrong...warnings and cautions stuff.

Most drones now are "fly by mouse" and the controller is much less "flying" the UAS rather than telling it what to do...and, most importantly, getting the data off the drone to where it needs to be.

Training and logistics are the most expensive part of any program once it transitions to production.

Tomorrow's meeting is about user manuals and how we can mitigate that onus.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

It depends, really. The controllers are essentially "hardened" to made them more robust in DoD and civilian applications. I am listening to two of our software folks discuss this as I type. Like a lot of applications, we are most concerned about operator interface with the drone when things go wrong...warnings and cautions stuff.

Most drones now are "fly by mouse" and the controller is much less "flying" the UAS rather than telling it what to do...and, most importantly, getting the data off the drone to where it needs to be.

Training and logistics are the most expensive part of any program once it transitions to production.

Tomorrow's meeting is about user manuals and how we can mitigate that onus.

That's kind of what I would have expected, something a bit more robust, and possibly with some extra buttons/features.

I don't know if drones are always flown by someone "local/in country" or if they are flown by someone far away (back in the US). If they are ever flown by someone deployed, I would expect to need something a bit sturdier. I've heard of folks having to dump sand out of "computer" equipment that was deployed in sandy areas. Plus, I'm not sure that soldiers are necessarily going to take good care of equipment. And presumably, that equipment may be more heavily used than your avg game controller at a person's home. And if something happens to a home game controller, you can always run to Walmart, Best Buy, or browse to Amazon to get a new one.

Just thinking out loud.

[Zeke]

Just WAG, but I bet we don't source our military grade controllers from china.

[pmax]

[Jolly Amaranto]

I would think that the few second delay to bounce the controller signal off a satellite from a control station half way around the globe to a drone might somehow enter into the equation.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

I would think that the few second delay to bounce the controller signal off a satellite from a control station half way around the globe to a drone might somehow enter into the equation.

the first time that I read you post, my brain saw "half second" vs "few second" for some reason.

Yes, that would be a consideration. I'd assume it may take a couple of satellites to get a signal from the US to the Middle East.

That's certainly no way to play a real-time FPS, but may work since SH said that they don't so much directly fly them these days as just tell them what to do.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by masraum

That's certainly no way to play a real-time FPS, but may work since SH said that they don't so much directly fly them these days as just tell them what to do.

There are "classes" of drones...the one that fly overseas and are controlled here are Predator class, Global Hawk class, larger aircraft with unbelievable comms.

The latency in comms in well under a second. The landing sequence is usually done locally...not sure since it has been a few years, but that is the way it used to be done.

The key is not controlling the air-vehicle, that is a plowed furrow...sensor field of view placement, getting the data where it needs to be is the hard part. It is not the aircraft, it is the data.

[fisher22]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

The latency in comms in well under a second. The landing sequence is usually done locally...not sure since it has been a few years, but that is the way it used to be done.

Takeoff and recovery operations are almost always done by local personnel. That’s the expected default, and actually a requirement in most cases due to safety reasons, both of the air vehicle and nearby personnel in case of a mishap. It’s not much of a cost or logistics concern because maintenance, security and refueling personnel are already stationed locally.

[pavulon]

There's a Global Hawk suspended from the ceiling of the Evergreen Space Museum in McMinville, OR. I didn't expect to see it (fitting) or how big they are in person. Remarkable!

[Jolly Amaranto]

I guess they don't use geosynchronous orbited satellites for the communication links. There is a very noticeable latency on television signals between a set on satellite dish and one using cable. Those satellites are way out there in orbit.

[fisher22]

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

I guess they don't use geosynchronous orbited satellites for the communication links. There is a very noticeable latency on television signals between a set on satellite dish and one using cable. Those satellites are way out there in orbit.

Military UAVs do utilize geosynchronous spacecraft for both control and data bandwidth. There are certainly other available methods, but the 1/4 second delay per round trip to geosynchronous orbit is well within allowable delay. Even if it has to bounce multiple round trips.

[Mahler9th]

"Growing up with game controllers has produced a new class of surgeons that adapt to the da Vinci Robot Surgical System much more readily than an older doc with no gaming experience and learning the system post residency or mid career."

Da Vinci... Intuitive Surgical. Quite a few former colleagues were there at or near the beginning.

Surgical robot-- you can learn about it from Wikipedia. I once worked for a company mentioned there... lost a few folks to Intuitive.

They made many ducats as that company grew.

Lots of friends and contacts have worked there.

PP and Porsche connection... at least one: Computer Motion, Inc. A talented former employee is a p car and p racing car fanatic that has made some interesting replicas.

The world is small!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

I guess they don't use geosynchronous orbited satellites for the communication links. There is a very noticeable latency on television signals between a set on satellite dish and one using cable. Those satellites are way out there in orbit.

GEO sat latency is generally 500-800ms round trip. I used to work for a company that provided network connectivity (data and voice) all over the world via satellite. It was mostly Oil companies, but also KBR over in Iraq, and now I think they also service a lot of cruise ships and possibly container ships.

[Aurel]

I’ll never go in a submarine or in a rocket ship. Thank God I can’t afford either.

[pmax]

[fisher22]

Lee Iacocca? Hero of sorts.

[pmax]

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Aurel

I’ll never go in a submarine or in a rocket ship. Thank God I can’t afford either.

I went in a Yellow Submarine tourist one in Rarotonga. Eww, motion sickness for the rest of the day.