Tourist mini sub missing off titanic

[john70t]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

further criticism of the situation does not mean someone was 'jealous' of the rich. it means they were smart enough to trust well qualified experts.

it should be a life lesson. trust experts, not rich people who want to believe.

The rich passengers did trust the experts. The owners.
The owner of the company went against science and decided not to hire any more 'boring 50yo white men' after firing the one who said the design was unsafe.
If anything this is a lesson in not trusting the experts just from my perspective.
They had the financial means to get 3rd opinions and didn't.

Regardless of wealth status, the passengers are/were of the pioneering exploratory mindset and set out to do what hasn't been done before while risking their own safety.
It doesn't matter the venue. That is the way progress is made.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by john70t

Uh the rich passengers did trust the experts. The owners.

the owners are clearly not experts.

[The Synergizer]

This is just like a Cessna going down, or a car crash that kills five, except it's interesting news fodder because everyone can visualize what's happening in that sewer pipe..

There is a lot of morbid comedy available here also...
But we are all polite.

Someday in the far future that thing will wash ashore on some remote beach...

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the owners are clearly not experts.

Hindsight is always 20/20. To consider the opinion of the owner of the company, a man who also was joining for the journey, doesn’t seem so far fetched.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Hindsight is always 20/20. To consider the opinion of the owner of the company, a man who also was joining for the journey, doesn’t seem so far fetched.

it really isnt though.

every expert who examined this sub, including employees of the company, voiced major and ongoing concerns about safety. the owner, openly flaunted safety. openly broke design rules that would have improved safety. other sub owners have all the necessary safety qualifications and certifications, so its not like this guy was the only person doing this.

it can be done correctly. it is done correctly day in and day out. even when done correctly, this is dangerous stuff. done incorrectly, and its literally just a matter of time.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I was involved in a discussion and the cost of this operation was brought up. Tell your friend that one person (NOT me) suggested that so much is being put into this effort because those involved are wealthy and either they or their estates can reimburse some of the cost - willingly or otherwise.

My guess is that no money will change hands regarding the SAR operation.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by john70t

The rich passengers did trust the experts. The owners.

That seems like a silly statement. The owner may have thought that he was an expert, but that doesn't make him an expert.

The owner of the company went against science and decided not to hire any more 'boring 50yo white men' after firing the one who said the design was unsafe.
If anything this is a lesson in not trusting the experts just from my perspective.

Based on the statement above, I reach 2 conclusions.
1 The owner was a fool.
2 The guy that got fired for saying it was unsafe was "the expert"

Regardless of wealth status, the passengers are/were of the pioneering exploratory mindset and set out to do what hasn't been done before while risking their own safety.
It doesn't matter the venue. That is the way progress is made.

Yes, I can agree with that to some extent. In some cases, the folks were rich which gave them the wherewithal to perform extraordinary actions. They may or may not have been ideally suited to those actions. They may or may not have had any qualities that made them more suited than others for those actions other than their money, but money can give you capabilities. In this particular case, it seems they should have given a bit more thought to what was going on before forking over their money. But at some point, most folks will have to "trust the experts" and sometimes it can be difficult to know who the experts are. Folks that proclaim to be experts or come across as experts are not always experts.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the owners are clearly not experts.

I'd say that's pretty clear.

Originally Posted by The Synergizer

This is just like a Cessna going down, or a car crash that kills five, except it's interesting news fodder because everyone can visualize what's happening in that sewer pipe..

Yes and no. 5 Random rich folks dying in an accident is pretty much the same as any other 5 folks dying in an accident. Granted, in a car or plane, those things are fully baked. This thing was clearly not fully baked. The fact that the situation is so unusual to the extreme is what makes it so much more interesting to so many.

There is a lot of morbid comedy available here also...
But we are all polite.

Someday in the far future that thing will wash ashore on some remote beach...

Or become engulfed in sand at the bottom of the ocean.

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Hindsight is always 20/20. To consider the opinion of the owner of the company, a man who also was joining for the journey, doesn’t seem so far fetched.

Right. The sub had been down before multiple times and come back up with everyone alive. The owner was going on this trip. Considering those two details, I could see how some folks would think "OK, it must be good."

Of course, if the person that you're using as a gauge is foolish...

[BK911]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

I’m pretty sure there is no circumstance wherein I would allow myself to be sealed inside an air and water tight titanium and carbon fiber tube with sixteen bolts from the outside.

Actually, I’m absolutely sure there is no circumstance.

What horror.

Nope, nada, NFW.
Starting with the Navy as a teenager, then ALL of my jobs since have dealt with risk management. Carry that philosophy into personal life, and nope, nada, NFW anybody is bolting me into a carbon fiber coffin and dropping me 400 meters deep into the ocean. That does not sound like a good idea at any level. First question I always ask myself, is it worth the risk. Nope, nada, NFW.

Can't see this event having a happy ending.
Just hope that it was quick with structural failure, rather than getting stuck in some net.

[Chocaholic]

And the owner is being impugned across the globe without the benefit of his side of the story. If I’ve learned anything over the years...there are (at least) two sides to every story. In this case, we only get access to one. Someone must be blamed.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Someone must be blamed.

yeah, probably the guy in charge.

[CurtEgerer]

When I used to skydive, there was an oft used saying by pilots ... why would anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane? They had a good point and I quit. So ... why would anyone leave a perfectly good boat and attempt to dive 12,500 feet below the ocean surface? There's an awesome Titanic museum in Orlando. Full of authentic items from the ship, including the helm. I think it was $25 a few years back. As a bonus, you get to drive home in time for dinner when you're done.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by BK911

Nope, nada, NFW.
Starting with the Navy as a teenager, then ALL of my jobs since have dealt with risk management. Carry that philosophy into personal life, and nope, nada, NFW anybody is bolting me into a carbon fiber coffin and dropping me 400 meters deep into the ocean. That does not sound like a good idea at any level. First question I always ask myself, is it worth the risk. Nope, nada, NFW.

Can't see this event having a happy ending.
Just hope that it was quick with structural failure, rather than getting stuck in some net.

Clearly this wouldn't make your determination different, but I think it's closer to 4000m, not 400. The Titanic is ~2.5 miles down.

[serene911]

They just found a debris field within the search area and are now analyzing it.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by serene911

They just found a debris field within the search area and are now analyzing it.

Thanks!

Debris field is discovered in search area near the Titanic, US Coast Guard announces -as family of missing British billionaire Hamish Harding slam OceanGate over 'frightening' eight hour delay in raising the alarm after sub vanished

"The Titan craft, run by OceanGate Explorations, submerged on Sunday at 1pm UK time around 400 miles southeast of St John's, Newfoundland. At 2.45pm it lost contact with its mothership, the Polar Prince. But it wasn't reported missing to the US Coast Guard until 10.40pm."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12223805/Debris-field-discovered-search-area-near-Titanic.html

[Baz]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

---snip--- There's an awesome Titanic museum in Orlando. Full of authentic items from the ship, including the helm. I think it was $25 a few years back. As a bonus, you get to drive home in time for dinner when you're done.

Up to $32 now, I believe.

The Putin Price Hike!

[dad911]

3:00 US Coast Guard press conference today.

[pwd72s]

Soon enough this story will end. Debris field suggests no long term running out of air scenario. Perhaps a good thing?

[Baz]

My guess - pure speculation - is the vessel imploded on the descent and all passengers perished immediately.

[sc_rufctr]

Uhhhhh.... gut punch

I'm still praying for a miracle.

[bugstrider]

Just some mathematical statistics:.

Titanic is resting at 12,500 feet, some report more like 13,000 feet. For this example, I am using 12,500 feet.

At the surface of the ocean, we are subjected to 1.0 Atmosphere(ATM) of pressure. That means if you took the weight of 1.0 square inch of air all the way up through the earths Atmosphere, the weight of said air, exerts 14.7 pounds of pressure on our bodies. For ever 33’ you descend down into the ocean, it is one additional Atmosphere of pressure, that means at 33’ you are experiencing 2 ATM of pressure on the body. 1 ATM for everything above the surface and 1 ATM for the 33’ below.

At 12’500 feet (3810 meters), you would be experiencing 379.78 ATM’s of pressure which translates to a mind blowing 5’582.88 pounds per square inch of pressure.

I know this is common knowledge for those of us that dive or in the diving related industry, however I just thought I would add this information for those that are not. Simply to help explain the amount of sheer physical forces experienced at those depths.

I am not a structural engineer, but like the pressurized aircraft that are flown, extensive inspections need to occur. Any designed vehicle that experiences repeated exposure to pressures of this magnitude needs rigorous inspection protocols. This means an inspection would need to be done over every square millimeter of “any” vessel after every drop to this depths to detect any micro flaw in a pressure vessel like this it would seem.


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