Anniversary and wife wants espresso/latte machine

[berettafan]

Grinder ordered. Went with the Niche Zero.

Wavering on the Pro 300 based on frothing ability. Pro 600 apparently froths like a beast but takes long time to warm up. Programmable plug would solve this I suppose but what about saturday afternoon when a neighbor pops in unannounced?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Alan A

I get what you are saying, but it’s for his wife. In the morning. Before she goes to work.

My advice is still a one-button. So the Jura.

I would recommend a Jura E8. I did a ton of research last fall and it was definitely the best choice in the $2K price range. I actually bought one at Christmas time, Crate & Barrel had the best price and a "sign up and get a 10% online discount" deal bringing it down to $1800. But the discount didn't apply to it. Called and C&B CS said it should apply but they couldn't get it to either. So it didn't happen and I'm still stuck with my Technivorm.

In retrospect one of the cosmic moments which pushed me to the bike purchase but still want an amazing cup of coffee and espresso.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Grinder ordered. Went with the Niche Zero.

Wavering on the Pro 300 based on frothing ability. Pro 600 apparently froths like a beast but takes long time to warm up. Programmable plug would solve this I suppose but what about saturday afternoon when a neighbor pops in unannounced?

Great call on the grinder.
My program is on at 630 am off at 6 pm. I don't drink coffee in the afternoon, but keep it on for reason you state. Plus, once up to temp these are very efficient, and they don't really like on/off cycles as much as constant power.

[jyl]

Great! Let us know how you like the Niche. I’ve been thinking of getting one for my office setup to come.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Great call on the grinder.
My program is on at 630 am off at 6 pm. I don't drink coffee in the afternoon, but keep it on for reason you state. Plus, once up to temp these are very efficient, and they don't really like on/off cycles as much as constant power.

So is there no downside to leaving the machine on all day for the weekends?

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Grinder ordered. Went with the Niche Zero.

Wavering on the Pro 300 based on frothing ability. Pro 600 apparently froths like a beast but takes long time to warm up. Programmable plug would solve this I suppose but what about saturday afternoon when a neighbor pops in unannounced?

Nice, niche is a good grinder. Definitely better espresso brew quality than the mazzers and the single dose is great. Conicals dont make chocolate flavor - they round out the flavors and reduce the extremes. Some fruit-bomb beans do taste better to me on conical, but most taste better and more exciting on my flat grinder. Same great bean can taste boring and dead from conical. Problem with the flat is that it exposes bean's flaws so nasty stuff can be extra nasty.

Warmup: Fact is the big traditional machines take a long time to get to temp. 45 minutes is safe, but really whole machine needs to be hot before it can make great shots back to back. We have a mechanical intermatic timer and machine is on from 4:30am until around 1pm. If you use a timer you need to be sure it can handle the amps. For parties we override the timer and leave machine on. I will say that other than the descaling the machine seems to have fewer problems if its left on 24/7, stuff doesn't like the daily pressure cycle going from cold to hot.

If you leave it on 24/7 the steam boiler will more quickly accumulate minerals and you'll need to descale more often. I find descaling is really unpleasant, generally I open up machine and pour descale in and out through an open port on the top, which means juggling a 60 pound machine over a bucket in the driveway.

Once up to temp the machines are hot and radiating heat into the room, like running a space heater. Its wasteful.

Elephant in the room is that the better the gear the worse cheap coffee will taste. Lots of people don't realize their beans are stale and rancid. All this gear is useless if you're just going to run grocery store beans through it. I think before buying anything you should figure out what product you expect. Go visit roasters and figure out the beans you want.

Buy a $10 +/- 0.01g scale on amazon. I have the 'AMIR' and its been great. Also try and score an open portafilter so you can see the brew come out - will help you dial in your technique more quickly.

4 years ago I installed the profitec flow profile kit on my e61 machine and its ok. I use it to 'save' shots when dialing in new beans, and you can see the actual brew pressure as its happening (e61 pressure gauge on case shows pump pressure, not pressure at the puck after the pressure bypass back to tank.) Not essential but nice to have. Kit takes 20 minutes to install so you can easily do it later.

[greglepore]

+ 1 on the flow control. Not just useful for new beans, but also for big humidity swings.

[gacook]

I bought my wife a decent espresso machine a couple years ago, don't remember the brand off the top of my head but it wasn't cheap.

She used it fairly religiously on weekends for a month or two...then it set on the kitchen counter virtually unused until last week when it went to storage to clear up space.

Hopefully, your wife uses whatever you get her more consistently.

Funny thing is, my boss (friend) told me the same story about his wife as I was looking for my wife's espresso machine...

[jyl]

Originally Posted by berettafan

So is there no downside to leaving the machine on all day for the weekends?

In theory, energy consumption and heats up house - both un-noticeable for me.

I have a timer for my espresso machine, but switched it to always-on.

You can open up the machine and wrap insulation around the boilers, I've not seen the point of it myself.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by jyl

In theory, energy consumption and heats up house - both un-noticeable for me.

I have a timer for my espresso machine, but switched it to always-on.

You can open up the machine and wrap insulation around the boilers, I've not seen the point of it myself.

My boilers are insulated and machine draws 85 watts on average, which at $0.08/kwh is about $60/year. My 'new' machine lets me disable steam boiler and with it off it averages only 30 watts. Steam takes about 10 minutes to build.

[red-beard]

I have several Jura E8 Super-Automatics (Home and Office). The one in the house has over 30,000 shots delivered. This is the older E8, not the newer one. Similar to the S8.

If she likes milk based drinks, the higher end Jura Capresso units will make pretty much anything automatically. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

We mostly use ours to make coffee. It tastes better than drip coffee. And as far as warm up time, it takes about 60 seconds to warm up and about 45 seconds to brew a full cup. So worst case is about 2 minutes to a steaming fresh cup every time coffee or espresso.

[berettafan]

Red i looked the E8 Jura up and holy crap is that a ridiculously complete package!

Gotta say this whole thing has been a fantastic way to avoid getting work done.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

I would recommend a Jura E8.

I second the E8. When I was buying I made the mistake of getting a Jura E6. The difference is that the E8 has a grinder bypass that lets you use ground coffee if you want a cup of something special now and then. The E6 lacks the bypass.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I second the E8. When I was buying I made the mistake of getting a Jura E6. The difference is that the E8 has a grinder bypass that lets you use ground coffee if you want a cup of something special now and then. The E6 lacks the bypass.

I really like this feature. It allows me to make decaf or half-caf coffee. On a rare occasion, Mrs. Beard likes flavored coffee.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

^^^
One of the features I liked in my research as well, I have 3-5 different bags of beans on the counter top. And sometimes I mix them to see how flavor profiles mix which is fun and interesting, most times a decent cup of coffee that has a brand new taste.

[ard]

Following this conversation with great interest as I may also be in the market soon. Like Cairo94507 I have a DeLonghi Magnifca "S" (Is "S" a designation like Porsche uses? LOL) that has been my faithful friend for > 15 years but despite me having replaced the O-rings twice over the past year (I posted on this forum about it), I am getting way too much water mixed in with the extracted pucks in the dregs container. Pucks used to be dry and solid. Not wanting to hijack the OP's thread but I'd love suggestions / ideas.

My experience with the Jura (forgot which model) was sub-par. I played with my machine for a few weeks tweaking grind settings, coffee dosage, water temp and was never really happy. In particular the water temp even at its highest setting felt "too cold" for my taste. Fortunately I bought it from Costco and they took it back.

An acquaintance has gone the "slippery slope" route and bought a vintage machine in (Olympia I think?) in need of a full overhaul and is about to dive in

[SteveWig]

There are 2 different conversations going in this thread. I appreciate both as I’m drawn towards the classic espresso machines like the Profitec just as I’m drawn towards air cooled 911’s, listening to music on vinyl with a nice Cabernet in my hand, etc.
The reality of situation is when my wife is dashing out of the house in the morning she wants convenience and is not going to go through the time involved in pulling shots, frothing milk, and cleaning up everything. The Jura is what your wife wants unless you are committed to doing the Jyl bedside delivery method.
As someone mentioned earlier, it’s the air cooled 911 vs the Camry. Monday through Friday she wants the Camry.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by SteveWig

There are 2 different conversations going in this thread. I appreciate both as I’m drawn towards the classic espresso machines like the Profitec just as I’m drawn towards air cooled 911’s, listening to music on vinyl with a nice Cabernet in my hand, etc.
The reality of situation is when my wife is dashing out of the house in the morning she wants convenience and is not going to go through the time involved in pulling shots, frothing milk, and cleaning up everything. The Jura is what your wife wants unless you are committed to doing the Jyl bedside delivery method.
As someone mentioned earlier, it’s the air cooled 911 vs the Camry. Monday through Friday she wants the Camry.

I love this comment. We are the same. Most mornings we are stumbling into the kitchen and pushing the wake-up button on the Jura as we reach for a cup, then shoving the cup under the spout and stabbing the "coffee NOW" button.

But we do like to slow down now and then.

Our solution is to have the super automatic for everyday use, and a burr grinder and a French press for those slow mornings when we want something extra nice. We could do without the burr grinder if we had just gotten the E8.

[SteveWig]

I remember buying the E8 about 20 years ago at Williams Sonoma when the Jura’s were somewhat of a new thing. There was a Jura rep at the store demonstrating the machine and he commented that the longest minute of your life was every morning waiting for the machine to say ready. He was right.

[jyl]

Nespresso are pretty cheap and fast way too get a shot, some have a milk container you fill, plop onto machine, and gets frothed while shot is being dispensed. Not as cool as a super automatic and some debate if it’s actually “espresso” but a fairly cheap way to get the quick morning shot.