Replacing My Main Panel

[jyl]

To the electrical pros and DIYers:

I need a larger panel. I’ve done a fair bit of electrical at home, up to installing subpanels, new circuits in the house, and wiring my garage. I am thinking that if the new panel is in the same location as the existing, and even the same brand (SquareD Homeline), but just more spaces, then replacing the panel should be straightforward . . .

No / Yes?

[masraum]

I'm like you. I've done a bunch of electrical work in a couple of homes. But I think I'd leave new panel installation to the pros.

I think you need to pop the meter off too make sure that there's no power, and I think you technically need a permit to do it.

[rwest]

Yes,

Shouldn’t be too difficult, but probably very time consuming and you will need to have power off to the service which means involving the power company and working in the dark.

Lots of things that could be done wrong. So you would need to label everything well and double check that you wire it correctly.

[908/930]

Do you have the room to add a sub panel?

Yes it is pretty straight forward. If like up here will need service suppler to turn off main power, and will need a permit and inspection prior to turning power back on.

[look 171]

How many amps is the existing panel? The wires need to be changed out from the pole, existing wires may be too small for the larger amp panel. If coming from the roof, you need to go up there and jump it hot. No ways around it. Once the install is complete, call the elec. company and they will come and finalize the connection point (where you made temp connection) and install meter. You must get a permit for this. Call your elec co. they will send out a spotter and he will locate the exact location of the new panel, in writing. The rest is pretty easy ans straight forward.

[Evans, Marv]

I had my main panel upgraded several years ago. I would spring for the cost to have it professionally done. You do need a permit, at least in my state, and the power company has to come out and shut the power off for the panel to be changed and reconnect the power after it's done. For those reasons, I'd just pay to have it professionally done in case I ran into an unanticipated snag.

[URY914]

If you did it yourself and anything were to happen in future your insurance company will hang it on you. Or when you go to sell the house and the inspector sees a new panel and askes to see the permit and final inspection. Not good.

I was asked for a fence permit when I sold my house. I knew my city required a permit so I had one. Lenders are all about documenting risk.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I had my main panel upgraded several years ago. I would spring for the cost to have it professionally done. You do need a permit, at least in my state, and the power company has to come out and shut the power off for the panel to be changed and reconnect the power after it's done. For those reasons, I'd just pay to have it professionally done in case I ran into an unanticipated snag.

SDG&E may do that but SoCal Edison is lax. They do spot the meter but the electrical contractor usually cuts the mains and ties off the service drop while doing the work. I have seen EC's reconnect after finishing and the inspector arrives the next day or so to sign off. Next door to me on a service upgrade, SCE never came out other than spotting. The split nuts wrapped in tape are still in place rather than the official SCE crimps.

AFA doing it yourself, planning and planning is very important. It's a lot of work and there's room for one person to make up that panel. You can use a 2nd to extend the mast if necessary and pull in the SEC (service entrance cable) and also drive in the ground rods and do the bonding to water and gas.

You are allowed to go hot if everything is in order before the inspector. But the POCO won't hook you up that day unless you are really well coordinated and if you fail, you get no juice unless you jumper it.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Article 250
Two new ground rods @ appropriate distance apart
Both cold water sides of the water heater bonded around flex hoses with #10 bare copper ground wire.
All subject to inspectors discretion you'll never get unless your hire a bonded electrical contractor and get a permit

Utility will probably want to upgrade your Neutral.

[jyl]

Thanks!

Electricians have refused to replace my main panel or do any work involving it, because said panel is in a location that, they say, is no longer legal. The illegality is that my laundry sink is in the 30” work zone around the panel. Why this was permitted when the house was rewired in 2000 I don’t know, but possibly the laundry sink was added later. I am planning to move the sink over a few feet, and then will call an electrician to see what they’ll want to replace the panel then. I don’t need to upsize the amps (it is a 200A panel), but it was out of open breaker spots pretty much immediately upon installation. I needed a few more circuits, so I added a subpanel nearby (in addition to a subpanel in the garage when I rewired that). But I’m planning to add two mini-splits and a generator transfer switch this year, and it feels better to get a new main panel with more spots rather than keep adding to the subpanel.

[Zeke]

You can have as many subs as you wish as long as you don't exceed the load capacity of the main.

In fact you may want to do that now that AFCI breakers are required for just about the whole house.

If you ran out or room with a 200 amp panel, either you have a huge house or are running a server farm. Or you have a huge shop. You may want to consolidate a few circuits. 4 bedroom houses don't need more than 4 light circuits (generally speaking, of course).

[MBAtarga]

Will any of the other electrical service components have to be updated to meet any new NEC codes with the panel change?

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Article 250
Two new ground rods @ appropriate distance apart…

Minimum of 6’.

For over 20 years, every house I’ve built has had a disconnect at the meter can. Would the meter still need to be removed if you can lock out tag out the disconnect?

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Zeke

You can have as many subs as you wish as long as you don't exceed the load capacity of the main.

In fact you may want to do that now that AFCI breakers are required for just about the whole house.

If you ran out or room with a 200 amp panel, either you have a huge house or are running a server farm. Or you have a huge shop. You may want to consolidate a few circuits. 4 bedroom houses don't need more than 4 light circuits (generally speaking, of course).

When the house was rewired, whoever did it was profligate with circuits. For example, just the basement lights and outlets are spread over four or five breakers. And of course there are 240v circuits that take up two slots each, and I added a few more (each subpanel, electric dryer, dishwasher, espresso machine all each needed a 240v circuit). The mini splits will need two more 240v circuits. So yes, my panel is full, even using half-height breakers (two circuits in one slot), even though I have gas range, gas water heater, etc. As a result, the circuits I want to pull into the transfer switch are spread over the main panel and the nearby subpanel. It’s just messy and I want to have things consolidated and better organized.

But if it will cost too much, I’ll make do.

[schwarz633]

I recently purchased a Honda EU7000is portable generator and installed a 30A 120/240 generator outlet on the exterior of my house. I needed to install the 30A 2 pole CB in the top 2 right hand spaces in order to install a main/generator CB interlock. I was pretty much out of spaces and didn't want to install any additional tandem breakers, so I picked up a 200A panel w/o main breaker and fed it from a 100A breaker in the main panel.

You do need to isolate the neutrals in the sub panel.

Now I've got plenty of room for expansion.

[1990C4S]

Who disconnects the power in your area? Are you allowed to pull the meter off to do it?

Is a permit required, and if so, is the homeowner allowed to do the work?

I suspect when you go down this rabbit hole, you will find that you need a qualified electrician to comply.

Otherwise, go for it. It's not rocket science.

[David]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Who disconnects the power in your area? Are you allowed to pull the meter off to do it?

Is a permit required, and if so, is the homeowner allowed to do the work?

I suspect when you go down this rabbit hole, you will find that you need a qualified electrician to comply.

Otherwise, go for it. It's not rocket science.

^ This.

Unless you're out in the woods, I bet a permit pulled by a licensed electrician is required, at least that's the way it is in Houston when I had my panel replaced. (In Houston the home owner can pull permits for construction and plumbing but not electrical)

When I did mine, the utility removed the meter, the electrician did the change over, then the utility guys came back and put the meter back on. Took a few hours total.

[jcommin]

My youngest lives in Virginia. He bought a row house built in 1910. The electrical is the house is a mash-up of knob/tube, Romex and conduit. I consulted two friends of mine: one is a general contractor, and the other is an Electrical contractor. I sent them a photo of the panel ( see attached). There are a minimum of 6 violations in that panel. With, their wisdom, I created a Statement of Work and got 2 quotes.

Replacing a panel is a money maker for a contractor but it needs to be done right and compliant. In Virgina, this work requires a permit and inspection. I live in Chicago and those conditions are the same.

I wouldn't mess with it.

[hcoles]

Should he go with a plug-on-neutral type panel?

[hcoles]

or QO vs. Homeline