F1 2024

[Deschodt]

Any fun guesses post testing? Looks close *behind* Redbull, between Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren. Seems not all were running all that hard engine wise and focusing on testing long runs on C3 compound used for the first race. So the ranking is flattering for Ferrari but nah.
The new "RB", aka Toro rosso aka alpha tauri could be above all the rest from what I saw...
My main surprise was Aston, not as fast as expected...

[Noah930]

A question for Captain: Why not make F1 cars smaller? We see the comparative diagrams of how cars have gotten so much larger over the years. But what if the regulations forced the cars to be smaller? Wouldn't that somewhat decrease their speeds (smaller cross-sectional area, but offset by less aero surfaces & less tire)? Smaller size should make passing on the increasing number of street courses easier, right? Or would driver safety suffer due to less crash protection? Or does the FIA/Formula 1 not really care?

[CurtEgerer]

Ya gotta love Alonso to tell it like it is

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Noah930

A question for Captain: Why not make F1 cars smaller? We see the comparative diagrams of how cars have gotten so much larger over the years. But what if the regulations forced the cars to be smaller? Wouldn't that somewhat decrease their speeds (smaller cross-sectional area, but offset by less aero surfaces & less tire)? Smaller size should make passing on the increasing number of street courses easier, right? Or would driver safety suffer due to less crash protection? Or does the FIA/Formula 1 not really care?

I suspect much of it is just American road cars. Crash protection. To get the driver low enough, feet protected behind the front wheels, and room for the engine, transmission MCU, electric motors and a few thousand sensors and batteries, that have to be that size.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Noah930

A question for Captain: Why not make F1 cars smaller? We see the comparative diagrams of how cars have gotten so much larger over the years. But what if the regulations forced the cars to be smaller? Wouldn't that somewhat decrease their speeds (smaller cross-sectional area, but offset by less aero surfaces & less tire)? Smaller size should make passing on the increasing number of street courses easier, right? Or would driver safety suffer due to less crash protection? Or does the FIA/Formula 1 not really care?

Looks like the powertrain takes up quite a bit of length. The long front overhang being the other issue. I think you hit the nail with driver safety.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Noah930

A question for Captain: Why not make F1 cars smaller? We see the comparative diagrams of how cars have gotten so much larger over the years. But what if the regulations forced the cars to be smaller? Wouldn't that somewhat decrease their speeds (smaller cross-sectional area, but offset by less aero surfaces & less tire)? Smaller size should make passing on the increasing number of street courses easier, right? Or would driver safety suffer due to less crash protection? Or does the FIA/Formula 1 not really care?

These articles might help explain

https://www.racefans.net/2020/05/27/f1s-minimum-car-weight-to-rise-again-in-2021-and-2022/

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/why-are-f1-cars-so-big/

I'm not a big fan of today's supersized F1 cars

Since I started back in the V10 era, designing a F1 car design is now infinetly more complicated and more detailed which directly conflicts against reducing weight or the size

Reducing weight is near impossible, reducing size will compromise safety and over taking

New aero rules coming include active aero so more weight/complexity and new V6 hybrid era will be more weight due to larger battery

To make everything smaller, lighter simpler is not really an option unless F1 went to NA 4 cylinder ICE's, smaller wheels, fueled pit stops or shorter races, slower speeds and reduced driver safety

[astrochex]

Its scary to think of what Newey might be able to do with active aero.

It would be fascinating to see the all the ideas he has and the process of getting them onto the car.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Since I started back in the V10 era, designing a F1 car design is now infinetly more complicated and more detailed which directly conflicts against reducing weight or the size

Reducing weight is near impossible, reducing size will compromise safety and over taking

New aero rules coming include active aero so more weight/complexity and new V6 hybrid era will be more weight due to larger battery

To make everything smaller, lighter simpler is not really an option unless F1 went to NA 4 cylinder ICE's, smaller wheels, fueled pit stops or shorter races, slower speeds and reduced driver safety

I suppose that was my point. It seems like F1 wants technical sophistication for technical sophistication's sake. So, as you pointed out, cars will then be more complicated/heavy/larger. F1 is an arms race.

So write the rules to try to deliberately oppose that. Is there no way to create the regulations to make the cars simpler with the goal/intended consequence of making them smaller (without compromising safety) and perhaps slower? Were the cars back in the V10 days so much less safe than those of today? Is the racing more exciting now than back then?

Forget this power unit garbage (is it really pushing trickle-down technology into road cars?) and additional active aero (won't that just make them faster, like active suspension?). Allow refueling. Even those inbred hicks in NASCAR seem to be able to refill their racecars without setting themselves on fire every weekend--and they've got a lot more cars and a lot more races to do so over the course of a season. Or would the teams and fans then complain about F1 cars not reflecting the pinnacle of motorsports technology?

Or am I an Andretti with no understanding of what it takes to make an F1 car?

[GH85Carrera]

Part of the issue is the F1 push for green. They want the complicated engine, electric system, and heat recovery system for the carbon neutral push.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I suppose that was my point. It seems like F1 wants technical sophistication for technical sophistication's sake. So, as you pointed out, cars will then be more complicated/heavy/larger. F1 is an arms race.

So write the rules to try to deliberately oppose that. Is there no way to create the regulations to make the cars simpler with the goal/intended consequence of making them smaller (without compromising safety) and perhaps slower? Were the cars back in the V10 days so much less safe than those of today? Is the racing more exciting now than back then?

Forget this power unit garbage (is it really pushing trickle-down technology into road cars?) and additional active aero (won't that just make them faster, like active suspension?). Allow refueling. Even those inbred hicks in NASCAR seem to be able to refill their racecars without setting themselves on fire every weekend--and they've got a lot more cars and a lot more races to do so over the course of a season. Or would the teams and fans then complain about F1 cars not reflecting the pinnacle of motorsports technology?

Or am I an Andretti with no understanding of what it takes to make an F1 car?

For me the coolest thing about F1 and the part I enjoy the most is that it's 100% an arms race with nowhere to hide.

UK Ministry of Defense thinks so too as they are on a big recruitment drive for top level motorsport experienced folk

F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport technology but at the same time has to be relevant to future roadcar technology

This is why the tyre/wheel size was increased from 13" and the new 2026 PU rules are 50% battery and 50% ICE using sustainable fuels with active aero. MGU-H ie turbo electric motor and active variable intake trumpets will both be obsolete, considered too complicated/costly for road cars

F1 is quite good at making the complicated more complicated but teams have to do this to stay competitive

Had breakfast with an F1 team CTO this morning and we both agree from 2026 will be the start of a PU war

I've worked through F1 tyre, aero/chassis, spend as much as you have wars but not done a PU war yet so very much looking forward to it

Future FIA development PU freeze plan seems well thought out, both battery and ICE new for 2026, frozen until 2028 when a new battery can be introduced and spec frozen for 2yrs, then 2029 a new ICE can be introduced and spec.frozen for 2yrs

Along side this I know the FIA have plans to reduce the minimum weight and size of cars

Not sure if it will make the racing anymore exciting but think it's pointing F1 in the right direction

[stealthn]

On another note just got through the latest season of Drive to Survive on Netflix, really well done showing all the drama of last year, my wife even enjoyed it ��

This year should be really interesting!

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

...UK Ministry of Defense thinks so too as they are on a big recruitment drive for top level motorsport experienced folk...

A few years ago I shared a row on a transatlantic flight with a young engineer from one of the F1 teams - don't recall which one.

We were there supporting the US/UK work related to the Continuous at Sea Deterrent (Trident SLBM systems). It was funny to contrast his (go fast and change as quickly as possible/necessary!) and my (different is bad, better is different therefore better is bad) core professions.

What a strange world to _not_ be striving to do things exactly as they were 40y ago... Progress rather than engineering archaeology. As interesting as Whitehall and as charming(?) as Reading/Aldermaston/Burghfield are, it would have been cool to take one of those trips to see the F1 machine. Perhaps the Nuclear Weapons Industrial Complex should champion a racing league of "brand new" cars built just as they were in 1982?

[yellowperil]

So, did I read this right? Thur Practice, Fri Quali, and race on Saturday?
for the first two races?

[Captain Ahab Jr]

This is interesting

https://youtu.be/9pEqyr_uT-k?si=ZuGm8gDUnlLPdVr2

[astrochex]

^That is very cool. The pilot needs to work on braking though.

I'm surprised the audio was as good as it was.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by astrochex

^That is very cool. The pilot needs to work on braking though.

I'm surprised the audio was as good as it was.

Super impressive, bet Seahawk's drone would put up a good race

[GH85Carrera]

Way way back 13 years ago!

[rfuerst911sc]

Christian Horner will continue as team principle and the investigation/case closed . On to Bahrain .

[Captain Ahab Jr]

He's either been cleared, someone has been paid off or he's survived an internal attack

Bet this is how he's feeling today...

[stealthn]

It’s ON!

Glued to the TV again this year as we get underway.

It’s going to be a good year!