Not a big Jelly Roll fan,but a good video on the fentanyl crises

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Singapore has a nearly zero illegal drug problem. How so? Death penalty for dealing.

Went to a training thing in Singapore for a week. Asked the taxi driver on the way to the airport if the drug dealers put to death are given a trial. He said "Sure, they are given a trial. Then they kill them."

[VINMAN]

Another issues is, people tend to equate the drug problem with the homeless, poor, street vermin, etc.. Many of my heroin/ fentanyl death cases have been in some of the wealthiest areas and homes in NJ.

Nobody is immune from it.

.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

I think it’s kinda like the ‘get your daughter a horse so she won’t have time for boys’ theory. It works for most.

this is a weird way to say "those who are well integrated into the system (ie have money/time/resources for a horse), care about the system, and will continue to work in the system"

and it says nothing about those who are opting out of the system.

the only way i think we can get more people to opt into the system, is to make the system not such a pile of flaming trash.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

Another issues is, people tend to equate the drug problem with the homeless, poor, street vermin, etc.. Many of my heroin/ fentanyl death cases have been in some of the wealthiest areas and homes in NJ.

Nobody is immune from it.

.

Yup. Young and promising kids are OD'ing from eminent backgrounds...
Heck, look at Hunter Biden...

[p911dad]

It seems hopelessly negative to say "never trust a junky", a saying from way back in time but sadly still valid today. Once hooked, it is near impossible to get free and they will do anything, steal anything to get a fix.
I watched an article recently about a new procedure that involves a type of brain surgery similar to a Parkinson's operation that literally turns off that little region of the brain that involves addiction. Seems to work but rather exotic for now. This team seemed to think this type of operation is maybe the only way to clear that urge from the addict.

[Arizona_928]

Lobotomy!

[Seahawk]

I just got back from my Primary Care Dr. for the final check on getting my right hip replaced (left one has been done). I was supposed to go in next week.

He found some blood anomalies he wasn't happy with for surgery so it will be another two months of interesting pain until I can get surgery. All signs are positive, btw.

He asked if I needed pain medication.

Nope. To paraphrase Neal Young: I have seen the pills and the damage done.

Pain is not weakness leaving the body, the only easy day wasn't yesterday and I will manage with other tools than prescription drugs.

I have no answer because at all times, in bad and good economies, social upheaval, etc. there is no prohibition that prevents abuse.

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

yup. we are told we live in a meritocracy, where if you work hard, good things will happen.

and we don't. we just don't.

and we grow up, and watch the richest people in the world doing the dumbest possible things, and we watch nepotism trump merit every time, and we watch how the world problems aren't complicated, but the solutions inconvenience a few very rich and powerful people and thus will never get fixed ... and you go .... why? why would i opt into this system?

its nice, being born into an upper middle class family, and fairly easy to be, upper middle class for me. but if you weren't born into the upper middle class, or even into the middle class ... why would you do it?

and i think we are watching an increasingly large number of people, basically just opting out of the system .becasue the system doesn't care about them, so why should they care about the system?

in the world we have, where merit means so little to the powerful ... why would opt in and try to merit your way up a system that doesnt care about merit?

My wife has worked with drug addicts for over years. What you have written here is nonsense.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by dewolf

My wife has worked with drug addicts for over years. What you have written here is nonsense.

great counter point

hedonism is an unimpeachable philosophy, until the sex drugs wear off.

the tricky bit is having a life, or the dream or promise of a life that keeps the hedonism to a dull roar.

there is a ton of research into treating addiction not with arguing that you need to stop doing things, but with the argument that you need to do things to break addictions. ie ... having a life worth living.

and what does genZ see when they look ahead? working 50+ hours a week, renting houses forever, never being able to afford kids, and basically no retirement. always terrified of the next medical bill. like, the world kinda sucks. why wouldnt just getting baked sound better than that? have you been baked? its amazing compared to how most of the country lives every day. if we dont want people to destroy their lives with endless hedonism ... we have to build a world thats worth living in sober.

you can't punish addiction into compliance. you can't guilt people into compliance either.

[Dixie]

I have a new rule as of today. No more dating anyone that smokes pot. "I smoke on occasion" really means, "I'm not always couch locked, sometimes I'm asleep."

...I wonder if they lace pot with fentanyl?

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

great counter point

hedonism is an unimpeachable philosophy, until the sex drugs wear off.

the tricky bit is having a life, or the dream or promise of a life that keeps the hedonism to a dull roar.

there is a ton of research into treating addiction not with arguing that you need to stop doing things, but with the argument that you need to do things to break addictions. ie ... having a life worth living.

How many years have you worked with addicts?

and what does genZ see when they look ahead? working 50+ hours a week, renting houses forever, never being able to afford kids, and basically no retirement. always terrified of the next medical bill. like, the world kinda sucks. why wouldnt just getting baked sound better than that? have you been baked? its amazing compared to how most of the country lives every day. if we dont want people to destroy their lives with endless hedonism ... we have to build a world thats worth living in sober.

you can't punish addiction into compliance. you can't guilt people into compliance either.

Boo hooo.

Edit: It's not the system that's flawed. The system runs very well for people who want help. It's people like you whose sense of entitlement is flawed.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

and what does genZ see when they look ahead? working 50+ hours a week, renting houses forever, never being able to afford kids, and basically no retirement. always terrified of the next medical bill. like, the world kinda sucks. why wouldnt just getting baked sound better than that? have you been baked? its amazing compared to how most of the country lives every day. if we dont want people to destroy their lives with endless hedonism ... we have to build a world thats worth living in sober.

There is no "one size fits all" for the reason people turn to drugs, and we talked about one of the reasons above, and I agree hopelessness is a cause for some people. But for some reason SOME Millennials, Gen Xers, and Gen Zs just have unrealistic expectations. I read this on the CNN feed this morning:

"Rachael and Garrett know how lucky they are, both having steady work and parents whom they were able to live with temporarily while they saved for a down payment. Critically, they also have a tenant: Rachael’s younger sister, Kristen, 26, moved in shortly after they bought the house in 2022, helping them pay the mortgage while saving herself from an increasingly unaffordable rental market.
But the couple still feels like they’re on a knife’s edge. Their day-to-day lives are dictated by a spreadsheet where Garrett, 35, meticulously manages every dollar coming in and out. 'This is the American Dream,” Rachael says. “But at what cost? What are we paying for the American Dream now?'”

What do they expect? Living "... on a knife’s edge," is what my parents did and what I did for years. Their parents probably did too. So "... their day-to-day lives are dictated by a spreadsheet where Garrett, 35, meticulously manages every dollar coming in and out." That is the life of about everyone I know of every age. What kind of world do they expect to live in where they don't have to manage their finances?

Another article on the same feed did a survey of Millennials and Gen Zs who are discouraged because they aren't doing as well as their parents. If they are working class people their parents weren't living on any gravy train at their age. It takes time to build wealth and income under the best circumstances. It sounds like some people are simply expecting too much. If they are discouraged and turn to drugs because they aren't living as well as their parents are and they have to manage their finances they need a reality check, not a pill.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

you can't punish addiction into compliance. you can't guilt people into compliance either.

True enough.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

I have a new rule as of today. No more dating anyone that smokes pot. "I smoke on occasion" really means, "I'm not always couch locked, sometimes I'm asleep."

...I wonder if they lace pot with fentanyl?

I get it, but its not the case. Now that cannabis is more or less legal or ignored, no one but kids buy it, they grow it or their friends do. Not advocating use, just don't worry 'bout it. But yeah, stoners are boring if you're not one.

As to cockerpunk's theory, that's only part of the equation. The other part is either the youthful urge to experiment, or worse, the kids like my son that got legit painkillers for real injuries while their brains were still really young and plastic, it set a hook like on a bass. Fentanyl does that with adult minds now. So yeah, no need to be desperate and depressed, just slip a little and down the hill you go.

[unclebilly]

The ironic part is that the government support and higher minimum wages and all the $$$ printing over the past 3 years has actually made things worse for those who voted in the current regimes in the US and Canada. Interest rates are way up so home ownership is no longer a possibility for many. Inflation is not 15%, it’s way more. The truck I bought a little over a month ago cost about double what a similarly equipped truck cost 12 years ago… let that sink in. Double.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The ironic part is that the government support and higher minimum wages and all the $$$ printing over the past 3 years has actually made things worse for those who voted in the current regimes in the US and Canada. Interest rates are way up so home ownership is no longer a possibility for many. Inflation is not 15%, it’s way more. The truck I bought a little over a month ago cost about double what a similarly equipped truck cost 12 years ago… let that sink in. Double.

Yeah. The current generation of kids and even adults (that didn’t make savvy financial decisions) have a cynical outlook on society and the world. Some abuse drugs. Some live in vans and reinvent the hippie movement. Others climb a watch tower or blow their brains out.

capitalism/consumerism is the virus to a society that doesn’t value merit or its citizens…

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

great counter point

hedonism is an unimpeachable philosophy, until the sex drugs wear off.

the tricky bit is having a life, or the dream or promise of a life that keeps the hedonism to a dull roar.

there is a ton of research into treating addiction not with arguing that you need to stop doing things, but with the argument that you need to do things to break addictions. ie ... having a life worth living.

and what does genZ see when they look ahead? working 50+ hours a week, renting houses forever, never being able to afford kids, and basically no retirement. always terrified of the next medical bill. like, the world kinda sucks. why wouldnt just getting baked sound better than that? have you been baked? its amazing compared to how most of the country lives every day. if we dont want people to destroy their lives with endless hedonism ... we have to build a world thats worth living in sober.

you can't punish addiction into compliance. you can't guilt people into compliance either.

Hard facts.

What was the purpose of the war on drugs?
Fill the prisons with pseudo slave labor for the state, federal and privatized prisons…

Two facts that echo in my mind.

1. The United States has the most laws in the world.
2. The United States has the most incarcerated in the world.


Neither will change and it will get worse.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

I have a new rule as of today. No more dating anyone that smokes pot. "I smoke on occasion" really means, "I'm not always couch locked, sometimes I'm asleep."

...I wonder if they lace pot with fentanyl?

Usually it’s cocaine that’s laced/cut with fentanyl.
In fact. It’s hard to find a product that is not cut with fentanyl (because it’s that cheap)…

Illicit drug use has infected every part of society including the professional. No one is immune and some can still be very successful on the sauce… Dangerfield, Rubin Williams, mr robot, medical field doctors, ect.

[Bill Douglas]

Here in New Zealand I watched a documentary on TV that said it's easier to go out and buy methamphetamine than it is to buy marijuana

AND of someone does manage to buy marijuana the chances are it's laced with something sinister. The scary thing is the moron who is the chemist behind the blend is a dumbo from one of the Maori gangs. Hardly an intelectual that you would risk your life on, thinking he had done a good job.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The ironic part is that the government support and higher minimum wages and all the $$$ printing over the past 3 years has actually made things worse for those who voted in the current regimes in the US and Canada. Interest rates are way up so home ownership is no longer a possibility for many. Inflation is not 15%, it’s way more. The truck I bought a little over a month ago cost about double what a similarly equipped truck cost 12 years ago… let that sink in. Double.

It’s a cop out to blame all of our problems on politicians. The billionaires and multi billionaires of the world have a lot more power than the politicians who suck up to them. We as individuals are not helpless either. We make choices that are not in our own best interests.
You could buy a hybrid truck 12 years ago? Who knew?

[PorscheGAL]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

...I wonder if they lace pot with fentanyl?

They might but I see it more with cocaine in the patients I see.