I Almost Gave Up by the 80th Kick...

[wswartzwel]

This thread reminded me of Peter Eagans column from December 1998 Cycle World "The Nearly Lost Art of the Kickstart."
How each motorcycle has its own sequence for kick starting. As a motorcycle mechanic over the years it was always a part of the puzzle for me when a Kickstart bike came in for repairs. Wearing Reboks back in the day didnt help much when working on big dualsport thumpers. Suzuki SP600s and Honda XRs with intermittant ignition issues were always sure to induce a limp before they were completed.

[Flatbutt1]

+1 Bill. It took me awhile to walk off the lump I got when an AMF Sportster threw me onto the handlebars.

[otto_kretschmer]

Good chance its just old gas.

It seems every time I need to use my chainsaw or line trimmer I have to take a trip to the gas station for a gallon of fresh gas and then the thing starts right up.

If the gas in your sporty is 4 months old or older I would drain the tank and fill up with new gas and see if it fires up.

I don't have this problem because my R50/5 has an electric start. I don't remember ever starting it with the kick start.

[Jeff Higgins]

That's always a consideration, Otto. This time, however, I had ridden just one week prior. Put over 80 miles on it which, with its tiny little two gallon "peanut" tank, is more than one tank of gas. The time it started on the second kick, one week ago, it had that three month old gas in it. This time the gas was as fresh as it could be. Weird. Defies all of our usual logic.

So, riding buddies often ask me why I leave the key in it when we stop for coffee, or lunch, or whatever. "So I don't lose it" is my reply. They seem to be worried that someone might steal it... hmm... I think my "anti-theft device" is even more effective than a manual transmission in a car.

Even if one knows, in principle, how to start one of these machines, they still don't know how to start this one. And the procedure varies with temperature, both ambient and engine.

One begins by feeling the front cylinder head (if she has sat for awhile, like over lunch) in an effort to guess her temperature. Don't worry, though, one can be off by as much as five degrees and still have some reasonable chance at success.

Having determined that, one then determines how much, if any, fuel to introduce. There are two ways to do this, via the enrichener (there is no choke) or via the accelerator pump. Too much or too little and it's going to take awhile to get her going.

Then one must manipulate the kicker. Gently push it through, sometimes more than once, until we find a compression stroke. It's when doing this that she will sometimes kick back a bit, or a lot. Not too high on the kicker's stroke, or it will skip over the ratchet on the clutch basket when we go to kick it. When it does that, the kicker free falls with no resistance, the only "stop" being when your shin makes contact with the right foot peg. Not a big deal with big tall motorcycle boots, but the poor schmuck who tries to steal it wearing his Reeboks is going to split his shin open.

Then there is the actual act of kicking. One must show some real commitment here, or she will either just slowly bleed down or she will kick back with a vengeance. She smells fear, believe me, and dearly loves to bite the timid. There is no compression release, no ignition retard, no "starting aids" of any kind. Just you and that kicker.

So, no, I'm not too worried about someone just randomly hopping on and stealing her. I do take the key when at motorcycle events, knowing there are others there who might have a chance. Other than that, though, at some random restaurant out on one of our rural roads? Prolly not.

[Zeke]

I think you need to haul it up a hill and bump it. For me kicking went out with 125cc 2-strokes. And talk about fussy.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I think you need to haul it up a hill and bump it. For me kicking went out with 125cc 2-strokes. And talk about fussy.

There is actually a pretty good hill further down our dead end, behind my house. I've used it more times than I can remember for recalcitrant motorcycles. Problem is, if she doesn't start, I get to push her back up.. That's happened more than once.

I use third gear on this particular bike (it's a four speed). One of the issues I face, though, is that she runs a wet clutch that, when cold, drags a good deal. I get her up to speed coasting in neutral, but upshifting with that cold, dragging clutch begins to slow her rather quickly. Once the clutch is let out, and she is running through compression strokes, it quickly becomes "now or never".

I need a bigger hill. I get maybe 100 yards. Twice that would do it every time, but I'd have to push it a mile to find one that long.

[otto_kretschmer]

What about synching your carbs? Is the sporty a single carb setup or dual? I bought a set of mercury sticks when I was in college and still have them hanging on the wall of my work space. I also was lucky enough to get a Harmonizer when they were available a couple years ago.

What's left? Points, timing, plugs and wires?

[Zeke]

Notice I said "haul" up the hill. No way I'm pushing a Harley anywhere.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by masraum

I know it's a motorsickle, but reading your story had me picturing this...

A lot of broken arms were involved, previous to the developement of the electrical starter/ring gear.

[otto_kretschmer]

I bought my 1970 R50/5 as a "bike in a box" project. It was a rolling frame and 4 or 5 boxes of parts. Sometime in 2005 I started putting it together and found a few parts were missing; a carb, the cam, a couple lifters and some other minor parts.

I rebuilt the motor with new mains and a used cam and got everything together and the bike wouldn't fire up. I sprayed carb cleaner in the carbs and the bike would start and run for a few seconds until all the cleaner was gone. I was stumped for a while and decided to replace all the parts inside the carbs. I went to the BMW microfiche and bought new needles, jets, gaskets, jet holders and a spring loaded thing that acted like an accelerator pump. I went thru both carbs and the bike fired up and ran like it should after that.

I guess the lesson I learned is the carbs age and wear and you can't really tell their condition. I have been temped to replace the old Bings with Mikunis but never got around to it. The Bings are working fine.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

What about synching your carbs? Is the sporty a single carb setup or dual? I bought a set of mercury sticks when I was in college and still have them hanging on the wall of my work space. I also was lucky enough to get a Harmonizer when they were available a couple years ago.

What's left? Points, timing, plugs and wires?

It's a single carb, which is a large part of her inherent problem. It's huge, by motorcycle standards, with an 1 7/8" (47.625mm) bore. Not much velocity through it at idle, much less when kicking. That, and the 45 agree cylinder offset results in a very uneven firing split, 315 degrees between front and rear, then 405 degrees between rear and front. That confuses the hell out of the vacuum signal.

I recently installed a full electronic ignition unit, and ran it the last half of last summer. Brand new wires, brand new plugs, 13.7 volts on the volt meter, etc. She absolutely runs like a top, best she ever has in the 45 years I've owned her.

And, like I said, usually a one or two kick starter, even when stone cold and after having sat for weeks, or even months. Just every now and then she gets stubborn. No rhyme or reason.

Originally Posted by Zeke

Notice I said "haul" up the hill. No way I'm pushing a Harley anywhere.

Heh heh... yup, I see that now. She is actually pretty "light" (for a Harley) at about 470 pounds. Still 100 more than my Ducati 900SS or my Honda XR650L, but an easy 350 pounds lighter than my Road King (hell, I can barely push that thing on my flat garage floor).

But, yeah, pushing her up any kind of hill vs. kicking her 81 times. I chose the latter.

One of the other problems stems from riding her in this colder weather. I know better than to don my jacket before I start trying, but I'm already wearing my long underwear, insulated riding pants, and sweater. I was soon down to my long underwear and pants but, even then, worked up a pretty good sweat. I'm not going to get down to bare chested just to start my bike - my neighbors worry enough about me as it is...

[john70t]

I rode a 1978 Honda 750k through a winter or two in my early years. Slide sideways down some streets hopping on sheet ice getting to work. Froze my hands at 110mph on the highway extended with no gloves. Took 35mph curves at 90mph. Rear tire went sideways a foot popping a wheelie at speed after a rain. Raced a guy on a 2-lane who kicked my ass above three digits. Had the Vetter fairing windshield fall into my lap on a 50mph 2-lane in traffic.

Did it all on that bike in a couple years. Loved it. Gave it to friend or friends who trashed it further and abandoned it at some point. Years later living in another state across country I got a abandoned property compound notice.

[Flatbutt1]

Originally Posted by john70t

I rode a 1978 Honda 750k through a winter or two in my early years. Slide sideways down some streets hopping on sheet ice getting to work. Froze my hands at 110mph on the highway extended with no gloves. Took 35mph curves at 90mph. Rear tire went sideways a foot popping a wheelie at speed after a rain. Raced a guy on a 2-lane who kicked my ass above three digits. Had the Vetter fairing windshield fall into my lap on a 50mph 2-lane in traffic.

Did it all on that bike in a couple years. Loved it. Gave it to friend or friends who trashed it further and abandoned it at some point. Years later living in another state across country I got a abandoned property compound notice.

Did the same on a Kawi 2 stroke triple al thru college. I used Hippo Hands to save my fingers. And I swapped out A LOT of center spark plugs.

[Rot 911]

Just finished rebuilding the top end on my 1968 Triumph Daytona. New cylinder, pistons, and completely rebuilt head. Opened up the garage door (heatwave outside:28 degrees). Put some gas in, tickled the carbs, started on the first kick.

[serene911]

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

Just finished rebuilding the top end on my 1968 Triumph Daytona. New cylinder, pistons, and completely rebuilt head. Opened up the garage door (heatwave outside:28 degrees). Put some gas in, tickled the carbs, started on the first kick.

Beautiful bike! You know, though, that your story is starting just like mine... We also both know that your day is coming... a beauty like that is going to someday just fold her arms, stamp her foot, and say "no"...