EVs didn't get better, ICE cars just turned to fat lard

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by KNS

I keep hearing people on this thread saying "Americans want big cars and trucks". Some do yes, but many don't. Some want a basic work truck, they don't need or want the monstrosities that are offered right now. But the choices are slim.

But more people do want bigger vehicles, and there's more profit to bigger vehicles which incentivizes manufacturers to market and push more big vehicles than small vehicles, until more becomes most becomes only.

I remember looking at the F150 numbers compared to Maverick numbers and it wasn't even close.

If people wanted more small trucks than big trucks then that's what would be made, but they don't. There's still a market for the smaller ones but it's only a fraction of the market that's dominated by big boy trucks.

Originally Posted by Tobra

What I want to buy is not offered in this country.

They are not selling people what they want, they are selling what has the best profit

Psssst... They have the best profit because people are willing to pay more to get them because they want them the most.

[aschen]

Right mfgs are colliding against the public to force things on them they don't want. They work with in the regulations as they always have, to bring to market products that maximize profits. If small efficient inexpensive cars were in huge demand and profitable the free market would prevail. It's clearly possible to make these cars within the rule set. The general public just has bad taste in cars, they buy big, high trim, and are not debt adverse. Enthusiast complain about boring cars and buy used anyways.

[red 928]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I was going to predict how many responses there would be before blaming of the government would start. I had 5, the number was 2 including the OP.

Well duh, even the dimmest of bulbs would realize
that this is a fairly well-informed and intelligent group.
Of course the truth would be presented in short time.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

What I want to buy is not offered in this country.

They are not selling people what they want, they are selling what has the best profit

^^^ This, this, this .... and more this.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Tobra

They are not selling people what they want, they are selling what has the best profit

^^ I think this also is a big part of the reason cars have grown so much.

In any case the manufacturers are starting to hit a wall: Garage size and parking lot spaces. They really can't go too much bigger.

Harry Metcalfe (Harry's Garage) recently commented on how cars have gotten so large and the difficulty in maneuvering around European city streets.

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by aschen

Right mfgs are colliding against the public to force things on them they don't want. They work with in the regulations as they always have, to bring to market products that maximize profits. If small efficient inexpensive cars were in huge demand and profitable the free market would prevail. It's clearly possible to make these cars within the rule set. The general public just has bad taste in cars, they buy big, high trim, and are not debt adverse. Enthusiast complain about boring cars and buy used anyways.

Oof, I feel targeted.

But it's this, people want big stuff with lots of features, and don't mind taking out seven or eight year loans to do it. During the great recession people started shedding their big, gas-guzzling vehicles but as soon as gas prices cooled off and they could get loans again guess what they started buying?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by David Inc.

And deaths per mile are half what they were when that '86 came out. And those deaths/mile were half what they were in the 60s.

I'm okay with pudgier cars if it means more moms and dads making it home to their kids.

but you dont have to choose. the 86 and the ND both are very safe in crashes.

so it can be done, they are just choosing to not.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

25 year old hilux. Dot and epa age out exemptions.

the reason they dont bring it here is the chicken tax.

[cockerpunk]

and diesels have died because they are dirty. the improved MPG doesn't matter, if each mile is dirtier than an equivalent gas mile.

they only reason they made a come back, is that companies were lying. thats called fraud. its a crime.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the reason they dont bring it here is the chicken tax.

I mean. After they jump through the hoops to have it epa and dot certified… add 25% tax please

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

and diesels have died because they are dirty. the improved MPG doesn't matter, if each mile is dirtier than an equivalent gas mile.

they only reason they made a come back, is that companies were lying. thats called fraud. its a crime.

Who defines what is dirty?

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

but you dont have to choose. the 86 and the ND both are very safe in crashes.

so it can be done, they are just choosing to not.

Sure they can, but clearly the Miata and 86 are outliers in terms of design and target market.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Who defines what is dirty?

chemistry.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

but you dont have to choose. the 86 and the ND both are very safe in crashes.

so it can be done, they are just choosing to not.

Whether it's realistic or not, I believe that a huge majority of the population equates smaller with less-safe and larger with more-safe. Imagine an accident between a miata and an F350.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Who defines what is dirty?

I'm pretty sure in the US the answer is "EPA" and to some extent "CARB". But I'm pretty sure that you knew that already.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by David Inc.

Sure they can, but clearly the Miata and 86 are outliers in terms of design and target market.

Exactly.

But the miata and 86 sales are miniscule compared to "regular" vehicles.


miata yearly US sales


Toyota 86 yearly US sales


Toyota Corolla yearly US sales


Toyota Rav4 yearly US sales

[aschen]

Originally Posted by masraum

Whether it's realistic or not, I believe that a huge majority of the population equates smaller with less-safe and larger with more-safe. Imagine an accident between a miata and an F350.

Make no mistake in the event of a collision with another moving vehicle the smaller vehicle is less safe, other factors being equal.

Crash testing into a fixed barrier doesnt tell the complete story, and small vehicles are currently safer than older small vehicles but they are less safe in the event of an accident than larger vehicles.

Smaller vehicles are theoretically better at accident avoidance and less prone to rollover.


In general the common wisdom, that bigger vehicles are safer than smaller is mostly true. Certainly moderate sized vehicles are safer than tiny vehicles in aggregate, for vehicles built to contemporary standards.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by masraum

Whether it's realistic or not, I believe that a huge majority of the population equates smaller with less-safe and larger with more-safe. Imagine an accident between a miata and an F350.

I do not have to imagine. There is no substitute for mass.

Physics does not care about your feelings.

[p911dad]

Yep. I've promoted sturdy SUV's to our kids (joking as urban assault vehicles) just for this reason, keep the babies safe. It's a physics thing. Parking in cities is another issue, of course.