Dipsticks… or not?

[unclebilly]

Reading the replies, I think I know why things have gone this way.

‘Car guys’ used to be people that worked on their own cars, or at least knew how to check their oil and change tires.

These days ‘car guys’ are influencers with the most views or follows. I bet most would not know what end of the dipstick to grab if you handed it to them.

With the stupification of society, needing a low oil (tire pressure, washer fluid, etc.) gauge is necessary because nobody pops the hood and knows what to look for or how to check things out anymore.

If you are going to have a dummy light, you need a level sensor. If you are going to have a level sensor, might as well have a gauge. If you have a gauge, why have a dipstick that nobody uses or understands?

We did this to ourselves, we raised a generation of mechanically inept people that as kids weren’t allowed to get dirty and were taught to look down on those that did or have dirt under their nails.

[afterburn 549]

I dont understand.
We have all striven and strived for low-tension rings.
They are low tension under coast (not compression stroke) But under compression, they seal up tight.
I have seen this using my leak-down machinery. Less then 2% leak down in the Harley with about 12 lbs of tension and it uses no oil.
Yes, it is dry sump and perhaps helps?

I think the crap oil is the culprit to get the 1 % more mileage in these cars.
Reading various oil charts , there is no reason for the Ow20 stuff under normal operating temps .
(Unless one is living in a really cold climate)
https://drivenracingoil.com/c-1389539-shop-by-viscosity.html

Our Supra comes with the recommended 0W20 crap
It got dumped and replaced with 5W 30 at the 7K mark and I think that was way too late! But I was not at all sure if they had a break in oil in there somewhere too?
If it is low tension rings fault, then the oil is being consumed in the exhaust and intake stroke?
As of right now I cant understand that.

[911 Rod]

I like my oil level gauges.
When I pull into the garage, I just look at them and decide if I want to add oil (yet).

[afterburn 549]

The danger is, when they go haywire you overfill....

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

I dont understand.
We have all striven and strived for low-tension rings.
They are low tension under coast (not compression stroke) But under compression, they seal up tight.
I have seen this using my leak-down machinery. Less then 2% leak down in the Harley with about 12 lbs of tension and it uses no oil.
Yes, it is dry sump and perhaps helps?

I think the crap oil is the culprit to get the 1 % more mileage in these cars.
Reading various oil charts , there is no reason for the Ow20 stuff under normal operating temps .
(Unless one is living in a really cold climate)
https://drivenracingoil.com/c-1389539-shop-by-viscosity.html

Our Supra comes with the recommended 0W20 crap
It got dumped and replaced with 5W 30 at the 7K mark and I think that was way too late! But I was not at all sure if they had a break in oil in there somewhere too?
If it is low tension rings fault, then the oil is being consumed in the exhaust and intake stroke?
As of right now I cant understand that.

this is a ridiculous strategy.

oil viscosity is specified by the factory based on the clearances, and as machine tools have gotten better, the rings, bores etc, all have gotten better, allowing for lower viscosity oil. just putting thicker oil in than designed will actually increase engine wear, not reduce it.

putting in thicker oil is almost always a bad idea. thicker oil means more pumping stress, means higher oil temps, means thinner oil, meaning you didnt actually get more viscosity, you just a stressing your oil pump more. for no reason.

the best oil rating is always (lowest you can buy)W(whatever the factory recommends).

ie, if the factory recommends 5w30, then then best oil you can buy for your car is 0w30. if the factory recommends 0w20, then you should put 0w20 in. this is because you always want thinner oil at start up, and then you want factory rated viscosity at temperature.

race motors included ... if you think your oil is thinning out at high track temps, then you need an oil cooler, not a thicker oil. lowestWwhatever the factory recommends.

[afterburn 549]

You amaze me!
you are on every thread, every page and know everything about anything.
However, you understand that smarter people than you agree the 0W20 stuff is crap for engines?
I just don't know how you manage to usurp everyone, a freeking genius right?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

You amaze me!
you are on every thread, every page and know everything about anything.
However, you understand that smarter people than you agree the 0W20 stuff is crap for engines?
I just don't know how you manage to usurp everyone, a freeking genius right?

im a mechanical engineer, i know some things about some things. oil viscosity and function in an engine is pretty well understood science.

the sentence "smarter people than you agree the 0w20 stuff is crap for engines" just shows your you arnt a serious person. "smarter people" who are these people? agree? agree on what? "the 0w20 is bad for engines" what? what engines? what oil? what age? what use case? what was the factory recommendation? why?

like that is a nonsense sentence with nonsense claims.

putting in thicker oil into an engine designed and made for a lighter oil, is not helping you with anything, including wear.

most engine wear comes from start up through to warm up. the problem with oil isnt that it thins when it gets hot, the problem with oil is that its too thick on start up. thats why the lowestWwhateverthefactory recommends is the right formula when picking oils.

[1990C4S]

Other threads aside, suggesting that people should use viscosity recommended by the manufacturer is not being a 'genius'. It's actually a prudent approach.

Thinking/suggesting that you know better than the engineers who designed and tested the engine might be considered being a 'know it all'.

Absent valid evidence, it's just an idea. Maybe a good one, maybe a terrible one, but it's your car, do what you want. If you want to have a serious discussion, go for it. But bring some facts.

[cockerpunk]

like the only argument against lowestWwhateverthefactoryrecomends is people with old engines who say they leak when they put in a modern 0w30 or 0w40 when back in the day they only used to be able to make 10w30 or 10w40.

0w40 is thinner on start up, and the proper thickness when warm, thus less engine wear all round than 10w40. back when the engine was built, 0w40 was probably not a thing that oil companies could make, thus why they didnt specify it or built for it. but it will reduce engine wear.

would you rather fix a couple of leaky 50 cent gaskets, or have to have your engine rebuilt sooner?

like its a no brainer.

and its certianly not a smart idea to put thicker than factory recommended oil in a modern engine. piston gaps and bearing gaps etc, all have gotten hugely better even in the last 20 years, it would be foolish to put in thicker than specified oil to seal those gaps and lubricate those parts. like why design the engine to have those gaps, only to put in a thicker oil, designed for larger gaps, into it?

like this is not that complicated.

[911 Rod]

Don't feed the troll

[zakthor]

Back to dipsticks... our prius has one. It told us it was losing oil. Yeah we kept it filled but the motor was leaking either from rings and/or a motor seal. Didn't matter what the cause was, a used engine installed was $2500, the cheapest repair quote we got was $9000.

Not sure why we even care if a car only offers an electric dipstick. Sooo many complex things to go wrong in a modern car that can't be diagnosed or repaired in your driveway.

I don't own a car without a dipstick but I'd trade it for things I dislike more, for example those expensive auto focusing headlights ($2500 to replace a light module?) Pretty much an entire custom mainframe from the 1970s is there to manage my headlights.

911 dipstick is absurd: get engine hot, then open the engine compartment while its running, undo that hot metal cap, finger into the dark hole to grab dipstick ring. Wipe, reinsert dipstick into a nearly invisible sleeve on the side of the fill tube, etc. Its charming when you're used to it but I think I'd prefer a reliable oil level sensor that was visible from the dash (instead of the bouncy thing.)

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Reading the replies, I think I know why things have gone this way.

‘Car guys’ used to be people that worked on their own cars, or at least knew how to check their oil and change tires.

These days ‘car guys’ are influencers with the most views or follows. I bet most would not know what end of the dipstick to grab if you handed it to them.

With the stupification of society, needing a low oil (tire pressure, washer fluid, etc.) gauge is necessary because nobody pops the hood and knows what to look for or how to check things out anymore.

If you are going to have a dummy light, you need a level sensor. If you are going to have a level sensor, might as well have a gauge. If you have a gauge, why have a dipstick that nobody uses or understands?

We did this to ourselves, we raised a generation of mechanically inept people that as kids weren’t allowed to get dirty and were taught to look down on those that did or have dirt under their nails.

I beg to differ.
3 axis manual machine tools were replaced by 6 axis CNC machines & 9 axis Robots that can interpolate any cut shape or process motion desired.
You went from being a hammer mechanic who smelled oil to a technician that modifies code at the source level of ladder logic.

YES, the kid can't shift a manual transmission, but he can on the fly set the parameters of an engine and transmission ECU.
NO he can't look at an assembly drawing either to reassemble an engine to tolerances, but he can look at an entity relationship drawing and know how the SW interacts as a system with the mechanicals.
Its a different world.

[Dantilla]

Dipsticks Lie!

I was at an insurance auction, looking at a totaled Jeep with the 4.0 6-cylinder.

A couple guys standing nearby casually mentioned: "Too bad there's not a drop of oil in it"

Pull the dipstick, and sure enough, it's bone dry.
But wait!
I have a Jeep with the 4.0. and the dipstick is a few inches longer than this one.
Scouting around, I snagged the dipstick from a different 4.0, and, yup, much longer.
Using the proper dipstick showed the oil level was full, and the oil even looked pretty clean.

Sneaky guys, swapping dipsticks, trying to scare other buyers away so they could pick it up cheap.

[afterburn 549]

Ouch!