What do you guys know about organ trafficking?

[Rick Lee]

I saw a fascinating show on Nat. Geo. tonight about organ transplants, bone grafting and the black market that exists for such. I didn't know this before, but apparently, you're ineligible for the transplant list if you're not expected to live at least five years after the transplant. So, of course, they interviewed some folks who had gone abroad to get what they needed.

One guy had been diagnosed with a liver ailment and was given less than a year to live and also told he wasn't going on the transplant list. He found a connection in China and three weeks after he went there, he had come home with a "new liver". Of course, they mentioned all the organ harvesting that goes on there with executed prisoners. Maybe I'm just ammoral, but I have no problem with executed prisoners being used for this stuff. If there were some actual market forces at work in organ availability, seems to me a lot more folks would get transplants.

I dated a girl once who had donated a kidney to a friend. And she told me there was a rigorous investigation process to make sure she was receiving no payment for it and really just wanted to help her friend out. Why in the world shouldn't someone be allowed to sell a kidney?

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Because you might be carrying them in a locked briefcase.

[Rick Lee]

In that case, the melting ice would give me away.

[Jim Richards]

What body parts are you selling? Any pics? Do you take PayPal?

[svandamme]

If you don't find it immoral to get livers from executed prisoners in China..
Then i suppose you also think that Chinese justice is not corrupt, and that all death sentences are indeed just, with fair prosecution and defence in the trial.
Maybe North Korea is also a good source for organs, i hear they have a massive ammount of death sentences there...
jolly good , isn't it... as long as "i" live, who cares, right?

Personally , i don't trust any governement organisation doing this, or even any private organisation...
I expect them to turn corrupt in no time, harvesting livers from poor sod's convicted under dubious circumstances...

I'de rather accept my faith, and die of my illness, with honour
Then participate in an organ deal where somebody elses (possibly/probably unjust) death sentence becomes my life line...

[jyl]

Larry Niven wrote some sci fi stories in which the demand for organs becomes so great that even minor crimes are punished with the death penalty - speeding for instance.

[Mo_Gearhead]

Not sure about organs?

Years ago, this piano refused to move.




Held up traffic for hours!

[gprsh924]

Still looking for ways to earn a little extra cash Rick?

[legion]

You know what they say...

It's better to have lobster on your piano than crabs on your organ.

[Jim Richards]

Mmmm, lobster.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by svandamme

If you don't find it immoral to get livers from executed prisoners in China..
Then i suppose you also think that Chinese justice is not corrupt, and that all death sentences are indeed just, with fair prosecution and defence in the trial.
Maybe North Korea is also a good source for organs, i hear they have a massive ammount of death sentences there...
jolly good , isn't it... as long as "i" live, who cares, right?

Personally , i don't trust any governement organisation doing this, or even any private organisation...
I expect them to turn corrupt in no time, harvesting livers from poor sod's convicted under dubious circumstances...

I'de rather accept my faith, and die of my illness, with honour
Then participate in an organ deal where somebody elses (possibly/probably unjust) death sentence becomes my life line...

mark the date, I agree with the Stijn, I thought you were an atheist, don't you mean fate, not faith?

[Rick Lee]

Stijn, why is it immoral to use executed prisoners' organs? Seems like a win-win to me. They don't need them any longer and their organs, when usable, cut down on the shortage. I can tell you 100% that I wouldn't hesitate to go there for a transplant if it were a matter of life and death for me. It's not like those guys aren't getting executed if no one needs their organs. They're condemned for their crimes, not for their organs. That's how they roll in China. Death penalty is widespread there and everyone knows it. BTW, I doubt there are many N. Koreans who have organs anyone would want. They are grossly malnourished.

The show I watched last night also showed some folks in India who sold kidneys because they were dirt poor and needed the cash. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do that?

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by legion

It's better to have lobster on your piano than crabs on your organ.

I'd rather have roses on my piano and tulips on my organ.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Dude, this one time I met a really hot girl at the bar. She came home with me, and the next morning I woke up in a bathtub full of ice with a big stich on my side. Do you think I got laid?

[masraum]

As I see it there are two issues.

Originally Posted by svandamme

Then i suppose you also think that Chinese justice is not corrupt, and that all death sentences are indeed just, with fair prosecution and defence in the trial.

is the first issue. Yes, the govt and their convictions are likely corrupt and unjust.

The second issue is if the organs of executed prisoners should be harvested for folks that need them.

As I see it, they are two separate issues that can come together in a way that poses a problem.

If the organs from prisoners in China are "purchased" then is the Chinese govt corrupt enough to execute people specifically to get the money rather than just harvesting folks that should be executed.

There probably is a serious issue with paying for organs from executed prisoners from China.

I guess part of the question is, if the organs weren't being paid for would the people be executed anyway. If it comes down to "China executes 1000 folks a year and cremates the body" or "China executes 1000 folks a year and harvests the organs", then the organs have been wasted. If the scenario was "China executes 1000 folks a year and cremates the bodies" or "China executes 2000 people a year and sells the harvested organs", then that's a problem assuming the $$$ is the real cause for the extra 1000 executions.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by masraum

There probably is a serious issue with paying for organs from executed prisoners from China.

You're probably right, but I'm not going to die just because the gov't MIGHT be corrupt.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cstreit

You're probably right, but I'm not going to die just because the gov't MIGHT be corrupt.

excellent point.

[Rikao4]

and when you, or a loved one is dying ..
it's the only point..
do they take paypal ?

Rika

[Rick Lee]

Organ transplants or not, China is not about to abolish its capital punishment. It's just crazy to think that they ever will. If world outrage doesn't get it abolished here, where the gov't. is somewhat accountable to public opinion, then it will never happen in China, where the gov't. not only doesn't care at all, but life generally has a lower value placed on it. Anyhoo, this is not a death penalty debate.

Bottom line is that a lot more organs are available for transplant (for whatever reason) than are getting tranplanted and people die on waitlists because of medical so-called ethics. I found it kinda funny that the American who was told he was going to die and not get on the transplant list was also told by his doctor that he'd have done the exact same thing in his situation. So he went to China, got a liver or kidney from someone who was going to die no matter his health (and not die in the U.S, where he could have signed an organ donor card) and this guy lived happily ever after. Call me heartless. Heartless would be making my wife a widow because I was too righteous to do what it took to stay alive.

[Rikao4]

righteous..same as stupid.
be like parking your P..because it's missing one real Fuch wheel...
yeah you sit and say it's 'original'
I'm getting a Rota and then drive...
oh I will stop and throw some flowers on your new place...
comfy..?

Rika