Turn rotor necessary?

[afterburn 549]

I use Power Stop on a lot of our vehicles, too!
The stuff at Flaps just will not hold up.

[A930Rocket]

I never turn rotors, when replacing pads.

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

I'm old school and would have them turned, just to give the new pads a nice surface to bed into. If not turning them, at least scuff them up a tad as a shiny surface isn't going to bed very well, it'll just glaze over.
I hate it when the shop doing the turning just cranks in .010-.015" on the tool without giving any consideration to making the rotor last a little bit longer.

I always took the minimum amount possible . Usually .002 per side at a time until they were true, then I would do a slow pass at .0005 per side, followed by a da sander with 80 grit while the rotor was still spinning on the machine .
The finish was a perfect non directional finish, and pads bedded perfectly almost every time .
Now, we just replace with chineese iron .
I think the whole pad deposit thing, is just an attempt by the brake manufactures to skate warrantying parts . They do not honor warranties due to warpage, or corrosion , which are the 2 main reasons I replace rotors on a daily basis .
Just my whack job theory, so take it for what it is worth .

[fastfredracing]

I would avoiid any cheap crossdrilled , or gas slotted rotors if you are in the rust belt .
I see the stuff that people put on from Rock Auto all the time, and one year here in Pa, and they are ready for the circular bin. Just a rustin' away

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by look 171

Anyone tried EBC pads. Any thoughts on Ceramic pads?

I use EBC on all our bikes, but use Hawk on the cars/truck/minivan. The Napa ceramic composites are great also, but the Hawk are better for the price. To me at least.

With the ceramics I could run the back roads or mountain switchbacks in the Durango like it was a sports car with no fade whatsoever. Though I got them for towing!

Street pads, the "track" pads need a little heat.

[afterburn 549]

I quit NAPA.I used to be a big fan when I was in business a longer time ago.
But in the last 5 years or so they have become another chineese outlet.
They don't even try to do better.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I never turn rotors, when replacing pads.

Same, I quit getting rotors turned a long time ago. Now if there was someone around like Fred who knew how to clean them up without ruining them, maybe I would. Rotors are consumable items, just like brake pads. If rotors are slightly worn, (tiny lip on the edge), who cares as long as they’re still in spec? If it’s more than a small lip, I replace them. Turning worn rotors generally just leaves you with skinny rotors that don’t have enough metal to spare on them for wear. The thickness of a rotor is a big deal.

As far as pads go, I stick with stock/OEM, especially on European cars but really on everything. My F-250 only gets Motorcraft pads…they fit perfectly and the compound was engineered for the truck. Pads that advertise no dust or longer lasting are junk, usually. They are just rock hard pads that eat rotors fast and do not perform or feel like OEM on the pedal. The pedal feel of a well engineered car is a wondrous thing, Porsche and Mercedes spring to mind but the brakes on my 2022 Chevy feel great as well.

[afterburn 549]

As said, it truly is dependent on where one drives said vehicles.
In the Rust Belt?
It's very high maintenance!
You folks out West have not a clue how bad these vehicles rust apart!
One does not see *vehicles on the road here over 10 m years old!
No embellishment here.
I was buying rotors for the Hondas about every year.
Since discovering "other" alternatives for parts (not flaps) my repairs have gone down some.
If one is using flaps here in the NE quadrant, at some point it will be cheaper to turn the rotors at least once B4 replacement.
Power Stop parts do last longer
* Almost everyone puts their sports cars away for the Winter here.
Albeit last Winter I saw a Cayman go through in 3 inches of salted slush....What a FOOL!

[Dave Kost]

Can anyone recommend a "bed in" procedure?

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by Dave Kost

Can anyone recommend a "bed in" procedure?

I've seen different procedures and different recommendations from manufacturers, but I've typically done maybe a dozen 70-30mph stops as fast as I can to get the temps up then drive around without stopping for a while. Don't lock your brakes, don't stop rolling.

I'm sure there's a better way, but I've never ended up with pulsing or bad wear after doing that. Note that this is for street+ pads that can still hold out for a 20 minute track session.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Dave Kost

Can anyone recommend a "bed in" procedure?

Yes. Install the correct pads, do it correctly and clean up or replace any tin hardware. Good pad sets come with new tin and shims for the pads, sometimes attached to the back of them with adhesive. Clean mounting surfaces on carriers where the pads sit completely before installing tin, use a small wire brush and other tools. Remove, clean and relubricate the pins that floating calipers "ride" on, make sure that they move freely. A spinning wire wheel on a bench grinder is necessary for doing a competent brake job in most cases, (to clean and smooth the pins), and I do NOT live in the rust belt.

Learn how to correctly use brake pad grease to very slightly lubricate the contact points where the pads slide in the carriers and make contact with the caliper pistons. Work very clean and do the brake job correctly and there is no need to "bed in" the pads. If you don't do the job right, no amount of driving a certain way will alleviate the issues you will have. I try not to mash the brakes for the first mile or two but then I'm easy on brakes in general, I try to drive well.

Oh yeah, don't forget to change the brake fluid regularly! Buy a cheap fluid tester online and check for moisture content in the reservoir of all of your vehicles. That one can save your life when going down a mountain on a 100 deg. day in the summer!

[speeder]

Brand new vehicles come with close to zero miles on all components, (including brakes), and there is no "bed-in" procedure necessary for the brake pads. Know why? Because it isn't needed and all of the related brake components are brand new and installed correctly. Absolutely no manufacturer on earth instructs you to "bed-in" the new pads on your new car or truck. Think about it.

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by Dave Kost

Can anyone recommend a "bed in" procedure?

The directions on the box say-
Several very hard stops under different speeds.
DONT come to a complete stop as it will imprint on the rotor

[javadog]

Originally Posted by speeder

Brand new vehicles come with close to zero miles on all components, (including brakes), and there is no "bed-in" procedure necessary for the brake pads. Know why? Because it isn't needed and all of the related brake components are brand new and installed correctly. Absolutely no manufacturer on earth instructs you to "bed-in" the new pads on your new car or truck. Think about it.

Well, that's not necessarily true.

First off, putting new pads up against used rotors definitely is different than when the vehicle is new, as the used rotors don't have the precision ground surface of new rotors.

As for new rotors, again, it depends. For example, here's what Brembo has to say on the matter:



Bedding Procedure

The bedding procedure is an important step when installing the GT systems or new rotors and pads.

Correctly bedded pads form a transfer layer of material on the surface of the disc which improves overall "bite" and performance. Without proper "pre-bedding" that simulates the correct heat and torque loads seen in actual driving conditions, a pad’s true potential cannot be realized. This process will also ensure that the pads will produce a rotor finish with a consistent transfer layer which prevents "judder" from occurring.

The Brembo Bedding Memo should be followed when installing a new Brembo system or new discs and / or street pads.

For race friction and / or track use, please contact us for detailed information regarding the appropriate bedding procedure to follow.



Memorandum

To : Gran Turismo Brake System Customers
From: Brembo North America, High Performance Division
Re: Important Post-Installation Notes



NOTE: It is very important to follow proper brake bedding procedure following installation. This is necessary not only for optimum performance of the system,but also to avoid onset of judder (vibration felt through brake and steering). The discs are delivered with a thin zinc coating to prevent corrosion. Prior to beginning the bedding procedure, this plating must be removed from the braking surfaces by driving the car slowly (under 30mph) and performing very light brakeapplications in order to remove the plating without generating heat. With too much heat or pedal pressure, this plating can be deposited unevenly on the disc, and impregnated into the pad, further increasing the likelihood of judder development. Once a visual inspection of the braking surfaces confirms that the plating has been evenly removed, begin with the bedding procedure as specified below.

Drive vehicle to a remote area and perform at least 30 brake applications of 3 second duration. Use light/medium deceleration with varying starting speeds. Leave at least ½ mile between each brake application
The purpose of this procedure is to gradually increase the temperature in the components without thermal shock, and to mate the brake pad and disc friction surfaces
After the repeated stops, drive the vehicle for several miles with little or no braking in order to adequately cool the components
The system is now ready for normal use


NOTE: This entire procedure must be complete before driving the vehicle as normal. It is especially important that this process is completed before any extended same-speed driving is done (i.e. freeway travel). Failure to follow these instructions greatly increases the likelihood of judder development

NOTE: After installation or bleeding of the brake system, flush any brake fluid from around the bleed screws, etc, using soapy water. Over time, brake fluid trapped in these areas may cause paint damage. Additionally, do not use acidicwheel cleaners when washing your vehicle, as they can cause damage to the caliper finish and aluminum disc mounting bells, as well as to the wheels themselves. Use only soap and water when cleaning wheels or braking components.



This document and any accompanying attachments are intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this document, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this document and any accompanying pages or attachments thereto, are strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please immediately notify Brembo by telephone and permanently destroy the original and any copy of this document, and its accompanying pages and attachments. Thank you.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by speeder

Yes. Install the correct pads, do it correctly and clean up or replace any tin hardware. Good pad sets come with new tin and shims for the pads, sometimes attached to the back of them with adhesive. Clean mounting surfaces on carriers where the pads sit completely before installing tin, use a small wire brush and other tools. Remove, clean and relubricate the pins that floating calipers "ride" on, make sure that they move freely. A spinning wire wheel on a bench grinder is necessary for doing a competent brake job in most cases, (to clean and smooth the pins), and I do NOT live in the rust belt.

Learn how to correctly use brake pad grease to very slightly lubricate the contact points where the pads slide in the carriers and make contact with the caliper pistons. Work very clean and do the brake job correctly and there is no need to "bed in" the pads. If you don't do the job right, no amount of driving a certain way will alleviate the issues you will have. I try not to mash the brakes for the first mile or two but then I'm easy on brakes in general, I try to drive well.

Oh yeah, don't forget to change the brake fluid regularly! Buy a cheap fluid tester online and check for moisture content in the reservoir of all of your vehicles. That one can save your life when going down a mountain on a 100 deg. day in the summer!

None of that is the "bed in" procedure. That's the "how to change pads" procedure.

The bedding procedure for pads is probably dependent upon the pads, so the manufacturers recommendations should be followed.

For instance, this is what Pagid says @ https://www.pagidracing.com/information/technical-information

Originally Posted by speeder

Brand new vehicles come with close to zero miles on all components, (including brakes), and there is no "bed-in" procedure necessary for the brake pads. Know why? Because it isn't needed and all of the related brake components are brand new and installed correctly. Absolutely no manufacturer on earth instructs you to "bed-in" the new pads on your new car or truck. Think about it.

The brake pad manufacturers have recommendations for bedding procedure. I guess they don't know what they are talking about?

https://www.hawkperformance.com/how-to

https://www.ebcbrakes.com/race-motorsport-articles/bedding-in/

https://www.techconnectcanada.com/blog/2018/12/brake-pad-burnishing-passenger-carlight-truck

https://pfcbrakes.com/bedding-procedures/

https://www.powerstop.com/resources/brake-pad-break-in-procedure/

https://www.wagnerbrake.com/technical/technical-tips/break-in.html

https://www.empirefordofhuntington.com/how-to-replace-ford-brake-pads

[speeder]

I guess that my point was that proper bedding-in of pads happens under normal driving. Normal/medium application of brakes creates enough heat to create the proper contact between pads and rotors. I virtually never have to stomp on my brakes in street driving and I have excellent results with my brakes across way too many vehicles I own, from 2k lb. sports cars to 7k lb. trucks.

My advice about doing a pad replacement correctly might have been misplaced but I pay a lot more attention to that than any “bed-in” procedure, which I ignore other than checking my brake job with a few light stops. Everyone is of course entitled to take my advice for what they paid for it.