Breville Barista Express question

[flipper35]

Daughter bought one for when she moves to her house. The issue is when she grinds and tamps the coffee itself is quite acidic. It comes out at 164* through the grounds into the cup, but the hot water comes out 1t 182*. I assume the colder temp is because the grounds absorb some of the heat. She has only tried one specific coffee which is not a true dark roast.

Next step? Different roast? She ordered an espresso roast to try. If it were a drip machine I would say too little beans or too cold, but I know little about these machines.

There are enough of you here with similar machines I figured the answer would be easier than Reddit or worse.

[greglepore]

It has a PID temp controller which is very accurate. Try 195 f and see if that helps. 185 is a little low and low temps can cause acidity.
She should be aiming for shot times in the 35 second range or so.

[zakthor]

I have my machine set so water comes out of grouphead at 203. There are milder coffees where ill turn it down a bit, maybe to 196.too hot tastes burned.

Low temp of 184 will taste under extracted, weak, not full bodied. Wont cause it to be acidic.

Acidic taste is from overextraction, probably from channelling. Could be brew pressure too high?

My guess: beans arent fresh enough and her grinder or technique are poor.

You need to form a good puck so water is expressed uniformly through the coffee.

As a test line up a few cups and capture a little coffee into each cup. The first few drops should be great, you will see that the coffee in subsequent cups tastes more and more acidic.

Problem likely puck is breaking down. Try grinding finer or… courser. Too fine can channel, too course can channel because theres no resistance.

Stale beans - and most beans are stale - are very difficult to pull proper shots from, and even if you succeed theyll taste rancid.

[greglepore]

Lower temps definitely can lead to acidic taste-https://fivesenses.com.au/blogs/news/brew-temperature-and-its-effects-on-espresso?srsltid=AfmBOopJsqJaSOGyktTmzTaU-xjdVZEX3ZJbK-TjxkG5wnHNTpp_9hH2. One example of many.
It can also be from overextraction, agree there.

[Bill Douglas]

Brent, has she tried throwing out the first cup then immediately making another.

I had a machine like that. It needed to make a shot to completely warm up.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Lower temps definitely can lead to acidic taste-https://fivesenses.com.au/blogs/news/brew-temperature-and-its-effects-on-espresso?srsltid=AfmBOopJsqJaSOGyktTmzTaU-xjdVZEX3ZJbK-TjxkG5wnHNTpp_9hH2. One example of many.
It can also be from overextraction, agree there.

Well… lots of things are said on the internet.

Rao disagrees. Cold makes sour. Acid is from overextraction.

[flipper35]

So far, we have tried turning up the temp, though it only has a max range of +-4 degrees, pre heated portafilter and cup, ran an empty shot and tried a little bit finer. We did get the puck to the point it is no longer soupy, but the taste is still very acidic.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by flipper35

So far, we have tried turning up the temp, though it only has a max range of +-4 degrees, pre heated portafilter and cup, ran an empty shot and tried a little bit finer. We did get the puck to the point it is no longer soupy, but the taste is still very acidic.

Capture and taste the very first drips through. Those first few drops are the best that coffee can do, If theyre bad then find different beans.

How long does it take to pull a shot?

[berettafan]

man this is a confusing hobby. I was certain I'd experienced too quick a pull = sour and too long gets more bitter. but it's temp related instead?

one thing I think I can contribute here- measuring brew temps is done at pressure and not in the cup or even held under the screen with no portafilter.

[greglepore]

I had a Breville for a long while (a Dual Boiler) and it was very sensitive to puck height. They actually have a little tool that you can use to "cut" the top of the puck to exactly the right headspace. Too low and the shots run fast, really too low and they're soupy. I'd try 18g to start with the normal double basket, but you want it to be as full as it can be and still allow the portafilter to lock in place.
The preinfusion on the Breville's is adjustable. Go for something longish, like 7 sec or so. Aim for a puck that's firm enough to get a 35 sec shot at a minimum with that preinfusion. Make sure the beans are freshish, like no more than 20-30 days out of roast. Report back.

[zakthor]

I owned a breville oracle for a month, i believe similar bones to your daughters machine. I bought it used and it started acting crazy on day 2. Read about how breville wouldn’t sell parts so i mailed it in for warranty repair then sold it away.

For the few days that i used it i thought it was an extemely good machine, brew pressure and temp stability were both great.

The grinder was its weakness but i used my own grinder.

Once you have a machine like that, everything is about puck prep.

Channelling means the water has found a fast path through the grounds, once theres a fast path all the water takes that path and you effectively have a hole in your puck. Only the grounds on that path donate flavor. You either get an extremely tiny shot, or you get an watery overextracted acid soup.

Goal of puck is to provide a uniform resistance so water floods through evenly. If you have a blind portafilter you should see coffee drips start everywhere across the bottom, all the grounds are contributing. Stop the shot when shot starts to turn light.

Puck prep is the problem of espresso.

Fresh Beans help a lot
Good grinder is essential, with grind set right
Extreme care with prep and tamp. If you’re rough or sloppy your puck will fail. I bump portafilter once on counter to settle griunds before i tamp.

Preinfusion gently wets the puck before providing pressurized water, the top of the puck swells and it better resists the onset of pressure.

Mentioned above if portafilter is too full the puck will be ruined by touching the screen, or just from being too close to the screen. Might be a good idea to weigh portafilter with/without coffee so you can get the quantity consistent.

I really think you need better beans and better technique.

The good news breville has absolutely fantastic videos and instructions. Watch those videos!

[greglepore]

They are amazing machines for what you can do with them. A temporary Slayer...but temporary.
I had the same issue, what killed mine after 5 years or so was all of the silicone orings and circlips and nylon junctions. The oem opv is crap but you can put in a real brass one. But yeah, after awhile all you do is fix leaks.
Honestly, I make as good or better shots with a real e61 single boiler with PID. It was 2x the price of the Breville but is 5x less trouble.
But as a technical exercise the Breville products are amazing.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by greglepore

They are amazing machines for what you can do with them. A temporary Slayer...but temporary.
I had the same issue, what killed mine after 5 years or so was all of the silicone orings and circlips and nylon junctions. The oem opv is crap but you can put in a real brass one. But yeah, after awhile all you do is fix leaks.
Honestly, I make as good or better shots with a real e61 single boiler with PID. It was 2x the price of the Breville but is 5x less trouble.
But as a technical exercise the Breville products are amazing.

Mine was blasting the steam boiler opv while off. As far as i was concerned thats the same as that little girl in the exorcist with the spinny head. After warranty they said i needed to descale more often. Whatever. I dont want to know why it was heating the steam boiler while allegedly off. I didnt ever open it up but yeah all i saw online were fatigued owners with tips to maintaining the hose fittings.

My main machine is a brewtus 2 still ticking just fine after… 17 years?!