Where have all the gentlemen gone?

[Moses]

Originally posted by agent325
... I Know I gave Brad and his buddy my word, but Cash is cash...

Kinda sums it up. I guess everything has a price.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Moses
Kinda sums it up. I guess everything has a price.

It is always interesting to see what that price is...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by old_skul
Uh...if it's not on paper, it didn't happen. Honesty schmonesty. Paper, with signature, guarantees you the sale.

There is plenty of room for honesty elsewhere - but if someone else offered him $1,000 over what your friend did, well, guess what.

Remind me not to hire you.

[TMH]

I think that we can and have seen both sides to this story. One party (potential buyer) thought they had a done deal, and other party (seller) had been burned by 2 other 'done deals'.

The one thing that I can't really figure out is why someone would go to this German Autofest show with the possible intent of purchasing a vehicle, and not have enough cash on them to leave an appropriate deposit? I don't know of anyone who would accept a personal check from a stranger on a day when banks are closed, and feel confident that this check was any good. I know that it would be concerning to be walking around with $500 - $1000 cash in my pocket, but if I was really looking to make a car deal that day, then this is what I would do to make sure I didn't miss out on something I really wanted.

A gentlemen's agreement is a wonderful thing, but with all of the morons out there it is difficult to not get burned when relying on one anymore. AND I AM NOT CALLING ANYONE INVOLVED IN THIS POTENTIAL TRANSACTION A MORON! It is just that there are so many folks out there today whose life passion seems to be to take advantage of others. Unfortunately, the gentlemen's agreement is most likely a thing of the past. I am sorry to see it go, but this is reality. I value the word that I give to others, and will continue to do so. In today's society, however, I virtually always look for an ulterior motive in the other party. No, I'm not some paranoid sitting in the corner of a dark, locked room. I am just adjusting for the present day, trying to keep from getting burned, or at least trying to minimize potential losses. I have been burned by both sellers and buyers whose 'word' was not worth what I feel mine is. That is life when buying and selling. Hopefully this thread has enlightened both the potential buyers and sellers, and can lead to less dissatisfaction in future transactions. That is what these BBS's are all about - To learn from others and try to help when possible.

Tom

[gerry100]

Reminds me of one my favorite car sales stories-

About 20 plus years ago on quiet summer evening I was sitting around the house while my wife was of at nite school or somewhere.

Sitting in a corner of the driveway, 100 ftback off the road behind some trees was her unregistered '66 Mustang, which had been there for 6 months while we decided what to do.

Along comes a smoking noisy Ford Maverick up the winding driveway with the horns honking. Both doors open - two guys and more smoke comes out ( this smoke smells a lot better).

Conversation goes something like this-

" mister we want that car, we restore em' like we're doing this Maverick how much do you want and when can we get it...."

' I suggest you call back when my wife is here, it's her baby and you'll have to deal with her"

' Can you hold it 'tll tommorow, we'll be back by 4;30 with the money- please hold it , take this deposit'

' It's been sitting here for six months, I'm sure it will be here tommorrow, call my wife then. Keep your deposit.'

' Here's $20 , you gotta hold this until tommorrow, we gotta have it..."

' It's been sitting here for...."

This conversation keeps repeating for another few minutes until I take the $20 just to get rid of these guys.

Never saw or heard from them again. I should have held out for $50, but I guess anytime a stranger drops in and forces you to take money you shouldn't complain.

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by TMH

The one thing that I can't really figure out is why someone would go to this German Autofest show with the possible intent of purchasing a vehicle, and not have enough cash on them to leave an appropriate deposit? I don't know of anyone who would accept a personal check from a stranger on a day when banks are closed, and feel confident that this check was any good.
Tom

TMH, a deposit was offered. The seller indicated his bank, Wells Fargo, I believe, WAS open on Sundays, hence, the attempt to verify funds. Believe me, my buddy was so giddy he could barely contain himself! Like Agent indicated, this is water under the bridge and no one is PO'd anymore. Lessons learned.

-B

[Joe Bob]

As a licensed vehicle dealer....I don't play one on TV....a deposit gives you the first place in line. If another buyer comes along with full price, the seller has the obligation to call the depositer and say....$hit or get of the pot...or sumthin' like that.

After fair warning the cash guy gets the car.....

What "I" would have done was call ALL parties and say that the first to get here with "x" amount gets the car.....

[Harold_89_911]

While it’s nice of Agent to share his side of the story with us, I don’t really see any new info from him. He made a commitment to sell the car but did not stick to that because of convenience/money. His post explains maybe why he did it, but it still does not go to the fact that he did not stick to his given word. The fact that other buyers have burned him in the past is just another excuse. So I still think Brad choose the appropriate word to describe him on the other board.

[Paul Franssen]

I am particularly impressed by Moses' most pertinent -and I might add, surgically precise, remarks... I feel the comments of BlueSkyJaunte, Nostatic, ChrisBennet, KurtV ...and BB80SC... are "right on".

Any of us who would "justify" that course of events with the reasoning that it is the logical application of "realpolitik" i.e. "tough $ugar, that's how the world is", are "de facto" providing encouragement for that unnecessary state of affairs.
The slap on the hands is accepted evidence of agreement in all sorts of business transactions, selling cows, horses....alas not, it seems, "fine automobiles".

As things are, BB80SC clearly mentioned that the matter has been solved and settled, the only conclusion thereof being that those concerned have agreed to be gentlemen. We all make mistakes, but sound procedures should solve the matter of misunderstandings. What, then, would be "sound procedure"?

BTW, I will never cease to be amazed at the common U.S. practice of paying things by cheque (bouncing ones or not)! Over here it is cash (especially to avoid taxes) and account to account bank transfers, possible 24 hours a day, from any bank automat.

And...buying a car sure is a stressful activity! I remember my mishaps...

Hey BB80SC, encourage your buddy, the force be with him, yeah!

[Hawktel]

I feel that Agent25 needed to be clear to all parties that the game was first person with money on the barrel got the ride.

Would have saved alot of fuss, taken care of his integrity, and allowed all parties to have a even chance at the Car.

[Wavey]

OK, here's a transaction I was recently involved in:

I had a vintage BMW motorcycle for sale for $6400. On a Wednesday, Party A calls me and we arrive at a price of $6000, bike to be delivered partway (350 miles) the following weekend. On Thursday Party B calls with an offer of $5800, sight unseen, he'll pick it up the following weekend. I call Party A who assures me we have a firm deal. By now it's Thursday night, no time to get a deposit to me. I call Party B and decline his offer.

I call Party A on Friday, he again assures me he'll be there with cash. I load the bike and head out the next morning. 150 miles from home, my cell rings, Party A is backing out, he "just changed his mind." I briefly think about driving all the way to his home to deliver my response in person, then let it go.

I call Party B to ask if his offer if it's still good, but he just completed a deal on another bike, and he's pissed because he really wanted my bike.

So who's the slimeball in this scenario? When you enter this arena you are very likely to encounter an occasional slimeball. You should always endeavor, as I do, to be a man of your word, but as a seller you also have to be prepared to protect your own interests and take action when the cash is on the table. And as a serious buyer you should be prepared to perform when you make an offer.

Otherwise, everything up to that point is just speculation.

[Rot 911]

You did the right thing. Party A is a slimeball.

[Wavey]

Correct. And I ended up selling the bike to Party C for $5500.00. I should have cancelled the deal with Party A, in which case he could claim I was a slimeball, and taken Party B's offer, who thinks I'm a slimeball because I declined his offer and then wanted to accept it 36 hours later.

My point is that things aren't always so clearcut- there are many gray areas. Some times you have to make choices to protect your own interest, and some times those choices are going to make someone else unhappy. That doesn't make you a slimeball.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Wavey
My point is that things aren't always so clearcut- there are many gray areas. Some times you have to make choices to protect your own interest, and some times those choices are going to make someone else unhappy. That doesn't make you a slimeball.

I respectfully disagree, I believe the question of integrity is very clear cut. The world of human interaction is full of grey areas this just isn't one of them IMO. You did the right thing by keeping your word at some expense.
-Chris

[Moses]

Originally posted by ChrisBennet
You did the right thing by keeping your word at some expense.
-Chris

Exactamundo! Next time you may want to consider the following approach; Tell buyer B you have a potential buyer but if the deal falls through, you'll call. That may have helped.

[Moses]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
... if a better offer is coming along, I'll take it." ...

-Wayne

Sadly, this was not part of the conversation described to us. Would have avoided all the hard feelings.

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Not having any $$$ to place a deposit on Sunday was poor planning by your neighbor. A written check is worthless to me, if I'm the seller of a car. On the other hand, the seller should have been more "hardnosed" per se, and indicated to you that if a better deal comes along, he will take it. I'm always up front about this (in fact, I use it as a bargaining tactic) when I'm selling something. I typically say something like "Cash is king dude, get me the $$$ and the car is yours - otherwise if a better offer is coming along, I'll take it." I don't think I've ever taken a deposit for a car ever...

Again, folks, a deposit was offered, but was not accepted. No, I would not take a personal check for the PURCHASE either, that's why they went looking for a bank. My buddy always has a wad of cash on him. I kid him about being a member of the Mexican mafia. It was odd to me that the seller turned down the offer for a deposit. Unless there was a misunderstanding somewhere, but I do not believe that to be the case.

Anyway, the search is on for a different car and it's my guess that all parties will end up happy.

-B

[MRM]

Originally posted by jmohn
There aren't many gentlemen left. Something similar happened to me about three years ago; I test drove an '84 that ran out real nice but had a couple small body and interior issues. We agreed on a price on a Sunday afternoon, I called (as agreed) Monday evening to arrange payment and delivery. He told me the car had been sold, I said "yes, I know, I bought it yesterday" which kind of stopped him for a moment, then he said "I mean I sold it to someone else". When I asked him "why?". He didn't really have an answer, just said it's been sold. Two weeks later I found and bought an SC, a MUCH nicer condition car, less miles, equipped the way I wanted, in a color I liked better, with NO issues. Some clouds do have a silver lining.

Jerry M
'78 SC

Jerry:

Was the car you were looking at a silver cab in Edina? If so, drop me an email at wmo1133203@aol.com. I'd like to talk to you.

Mike

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
I saw one Japanese dude at Pomona look at cars, shot some digital pictures, beamed them back to Japan, called the guy on the phone in Japan, and then handed the seller a briefcase full of money.

That's exactly the way it went down when I sold my '55 westfalia. Lots of 'starving student' hard luck stories, lowball offers, 'will you take payments?', "I'm have to sell my _____" and 'I'll trade you a _____'

These 2 Japanese guys attacked the bus with everything short of a lubed rubber glove, and each one had his own cell phone, chattering away at some other party, who would dispatch them to look at one aspect or another. After 15 minutes of that, one of them takes off his backpack, counts out the $10k, and it's done. No whining, no bull*****.

[Jack Olsen]

In my opinion: previous deadbeat buyers don't have anything to do with a current sale, and the personal check issue is also irrelevant. Either you tell the buyer that you'll hold the car for him, and you do it, or you tell him that without a cash deposit, right now, you won't.

In this case, the seller told the buyer one thing, and then did another. There was an agreement, and the two parties shook hands.

Have other buyers, in the history of car sales, backed out after shaking hands? Who cares. Are there other slimeball sellers and slimeball buyers in the world? Who cares.

Either your word means something, or it doesn't.

It seems very simple, based on what I'm reading here. If the buyer's terms weren't acceptable, then the seller shouldn't have shaken his hand and told him he had a deal.

Do what you say you're going to do, and you'll never have to backpedal, rationalize, or make excuses.