What is R Gruppe?

[dhoward]

"I double dare you to cross this line!!"

[Rot 911]

Don't forget, Gruppe B has naked women!

[KFC911]

Originally posted by LynnsABCs

The whole deal about RGruppe or a fraternity or other club that takes membership by submission and has a degree of exclusivity--that is one of the reasons people want to belong is because membership is limited. I'm not saying that is right or wrong or good or bad--it's their club and that's how it works. [/B]

Or, that is the EXACT reason why someone with any degree of self worth wouldn't give a rat's ass about belonging to!

[nostatic]

just to clarify...the SCWDP does have a small underground web presence in the form of a weblog: http://nostatic.com/blog/scwdp.php

We now return you to our regularly scheduled mud slinging...

[elbean]

Chiming in here in support of RGruppe. I also waited for a few months to get an answer from Cris. I was persistant in getting an answer and when I did it was with much apologies from Cris. I learned that he seems to be spread pretty thin.I joined because my car fit the criteria and I had been restoring my car for a few years and spent most of those missing the Cambria runs. When my car was ready my wife and I went to the Monterrey gathering and met some great people and had a great time. I saw cars there that were mostly pre73's (some bone stock) but mostly the hotrods that I like, and a coulple of 914's and a couple of 74-75 carreras, plus other Pcars. I suppose if I had a SC or a Carrera I would join them in their group of friends. Or if i had a hot-rod or a model t I would join their ranks too.
There have been some un-answered questions that Ted asked of exc911ence regarding specifics on his quest for membership that could clear this whole matter up.
I really enjoy the maturity of this board but this thread has brought out the worse in some.
This thread has become " I hate Harleys or Boxsters because I never have own one."

[pwd72s]

I'm feeling a bit of shock & awe here. Hell, give the guy his $50 back and hope there are no hard feelings. R Gruppe is simply not an "organized" club...no real officers other than Cris, no monthly newsletters, just gatherings of guys who appreciate the early 911 and it's "sports purpose" roots. If it's newsletters & stickers you need? Yep, there are other clubs. R GRuppe's "newsletter" is actually an annual of sorts, usually sent out after the main event of the year, a gathering on the California coast...

[kzm]

for the first two years since sending my application and payment i never got a sticker, or number or any formal acknowledgement. but i don't place too much value on clubs or acknowledgement anyhow. even if your not in the club you can still go to the events, see the cars (and various outlaws). there's nothing spiritual about being in a club. the spirit lives in your heart and mind, not from being a member. steve mcqueen and james dean had spirit and were loners or what we sometimes refer to as "outlaws". they did just fine knowing what they believed in and not leting the world or any club tell them what was "proper". being humble and greatful goes a long way. my 912-6 (outlaw car) was not accepted by any porsche clubs. but, i did not make it to be in a club. i made it for me. if chris says your in rgruppe, you can have my sticker and i'll pay the postage. who knows, i may have been "kicked-out" and just don't know it. at least i met some nice folks and saw some cool cars. hope you get what you want - kurt

[island911]

Originally posted by pwd72s
. . .. R Gruppe is simply not an "organzied" club...no real officers other than Cris, no monthly newsletters, just gatherings of guys who appreciate the early 911 and it's "sports purpose" roots. If it's newsletters & stickers you need? Yep, there are other clubs. . .

So then, what's the 50 bux for?

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
Just for perspective....
The SCWDP has NO dues, NO website (yet), NO stinkin' membership cards, and the stickers and t-shirts are all GONE.

Don't send us any money and we won't bug you. However, if you have a Un-Bastardized SC you can enlist, as long as you're perfectly willing to commit acts of subversion.

**End of Communique**

Hmmmm. This is just what you would _THINK_ a super secret organization would have.

I mean, James Bond seemed to find 1/2 of all his clues because they had Olympic rings on everything or match books with the super secret organization's symbol on them...

Maybe I should join all 3 and play each off against each other...

[Lothar]

Mark,

I respectfully disagree. This has not become a case of I hate anything because I've never owned one. We are all Porsche owners with differing tastes and interests. This is a debate over two things:

1. I entered this discussion because I found it absurd that anyone would defend the performance of R Gruppe after they receiving membership dues from someone they invited to join. Calling a guy, in essence, a whiner because he responded to this thread and shared his experience in response to the question posed by the author seemed rather harsh. Exc911ence is entitled to express his opinion and detail his experience on this thread whether Ted likes it or not.

2. Does R Gruppe maintain arbitrary or subjective standards for granting membership? Anyone who requests membership in an organization that advertises exclusivity better be prepared for possible rejection. Personally, I have built my car to my tastes and specifications. I don't give a rat's ass what R Gruppe members or anyone else think about my car. However, if R Gruppe rejects applicants because of subjective standards, then don't expect the rejected to have glowing remarks if the matter comes up on an open forum. They will assuredly be labled a bunch of snobs. That is simply the reality.

Do I like early cars? Yes, very much. Do I like other models and years? Yes there too. Would I request membership in R Gruppe, whether or not I owned an early 911, after what I have read here? Not likely. Worst of all, so few R Gruppe members have even made the attempt to put themselves in a better light in response to this criticism.

[juanbenae]

all kidding, mud slinging, and flames aside, well said lothar.

[Eric Mckenna]

Kurt V,
wait yer tellin me GruppeB has NAKED GALS!!!!!? I just joined gruppe B where are the Gals!?
ladies?

am I missing somthin?

[Jack Olsen]

This thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If exc911ence sent in a check, and it was cashed, then he can pretty safely assume he's a member. If not, he can pretty safely assume the issue hasn't been decided yet, or that he's out, and doesn't have to worry about the check getting cashed.

I've been a member of R Gruppe for a long time. I don't have a sticker, and I don't think I ever got any email confirming it. The group is mostly a local-to-California affair, and most of the confirmation/delivery-of-stickers stuff is handled when you're at the annual meeting, or one of the informal events like at EASY or German AutoFest. If you're expecting a regular stream of ancillary items in your mailbox, you're going to be disappointed. It's just Cris trying to take care of all the details.

I know the group felt that it was losing something after the Excellence Magazine article, when it seemed everybody and his brother decided it would be cool to join the R Gruppe. Suddenly, there were a lot of members who didn't actually participate in the group's events. In response to this, it was decided to trim the ranks so that membership in the group would mean something more than simply owning an early 911. The thing that makes the group fun is having active, participating members. The R Gruppe is not a registry, or even much of a club -- it's really just an excuse for 300 guys to go tearing around the countryside in early 911s. It also gives them an excuse to stand around in a parking lot every so often, sharing information about modifying the early cars.

At least, that's my opinion. I don't hold any kind of administrative position in the R Gruppe -- because there aren't any administrative positions in the R Gruppe. If you expect a lot of pomp and circumstance, then there are other groups that do it better. It's literally one guy doing all of the administrative stuff in his spare time.

[911pcars]

Maybe it comes down to what exc911ence assumes as part of his membership. Membership/ID card? Decoder ring? Glossy brochure? Schedule of his initiation rite? Concours calendar? Dunno, but there isn't any. Email confirmation? I guess a prompt reply would have been nice. Maybe he's busy.

All I can say is, if Mr. Huergas acknowledged you as a member in good standing (for whatever reason), you are a member. If the numbers are now too great for him to manage efficiently (without a staff, btw), take it easy. It's not the end of the world. Don't take it as a personal rejection. This is not a club as some erroneously describe it. It's a bunch of guys with early 911s. There is a subtle difference.

If you attend any R Gruppe event, no one's going to ask for your ID. However, they will check out your ride, but primarily your attitude. If the latter has too much of it, then that's what's not acceptable (to me). Perhaps Mr. Huergas incorrectly assumed your attitude coincides with what R Gruppe is all about. I'd wait a bit and try email again, or just ask for a refund.

Personnally, all I want is an email notification of the next event. But I can get that from the bulletin board(s) which are very much public. So there is nothing exclusive to membership except that elusive member number ... if that's what turns you on.

My $.02
Sherwood Lee
I don't remember my no.

[bob tilton]

hmmmm...okay i've got something to say in re: to cris' character and the RGruppe.

met cris a couple years ago at EASY. we always chatted for great lengths. it was early in my p-car ownership and i was just buying parts. didn't know that there it was an RGruppe meeting, didn't know what Rgruppe was, didn't know who cris was. i just knew i was talking to the guy with the car i admired the most cause it was similar to what i wanted to do.

during our conversations he became interested in my project and i was gathering ideas most of which had to be postponed due to the costs of repairs.

cris helped me in getting my tranny rebuilt by a reputable person for a huge savings to me. when it was done - he stayed past midnight on a weeknight to help me put it back into my car.plus he had to drive another 40 miles to get home. truth be told - i really didn't know him well enough to ask him to go to such great lengths.

he accepted no money - just a couple beers.

there is something on the their website about helping out youngs guys new to ownership...and he firmly believes in that according to his actions.

when this is all said and done it will probably come down to a simple misunderstanding - until then it's a shame to see this "internal" fighting amongst ALL 911 owners.


RGruppe for life

[Lothar]

Jack,

What you said about the purpose or mission of the club seems very reasonable. We have organized similar events in North Carolina without having a club, web site or dues. However, there is nothing wrong with having a small, manageable and organized membership.

What I find unreasonable is letting a cancelled check serve as the club's only response. Other clubs and organizations vary dramatically in their initiation procedures and level of corespondence. In my opinion, checking to see if my check got deposited is below a minimum standard for a club that asks for $50.

As a member of a local credit union, I don't even receive a cancelled check and, until recently, had to make a special request that took about a week. Now I can view the check by means of an online members area.

Sherwood,

"Membership/ID card? Decoder ring? Glossy brochure? Schedule of his initiation rite? Concours calendar?"

Not having these items for a small group is perfectly acceptable. They don't contribute much, if any, value anyway. You're right, however, this was about expectations. I don't think a minimum standard was acheived.

[Zeke]

Except for the last couple of posts, not much has addressed the original question, "What is RGruppe?"

RGruppe is about cars first, drivers second. It is about cars being modified to the owners' tastes without fear of repercussions from the purists' stand point. It's about driving instead of dusting off the car every half hour on somebody's lawn. The early cars are the stars of the gruppe; they do the talking for the owners. Sure it's social, but it's a low profile, non attitude answer to the anal side of P-car ownership often exibited by guys like me who drive Boxsters

How do I know all this? I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

BTW, I have red spark plug wires on on my 2.2. What more *attitude* can you expect?

[skinnerd]

I used to be an R Gruppe, but bailed about a year ago. All the pressure to attend events or be ostracized became too much, so I tendered my resignation. I can belong to the PCA or SCCA, and not attend any events, and they'll never send my an email like a received from the R Gruppe. I don't have any hard feelings at all, but just didn't need the hastle. I may have attended a couple of R Gruppe events at best... family always comes 1st, and that includes vacation time. I've got a couple of R Gruppe type vehicles that I've owned since before R Gruppe was even born. They'll still be R Gruppe type cars whether I belong to the R Gruppe or not. I wished I could have attended a Cambria event, but never could rustle up the spare days. I still enjoy talking with local R Gruppe members (e.g Randy Wells, Randy Jones, Jeff Smith) when I run into them. I really dig the R Gruppe cars. What more can I say? One thing that really did bug me was their credo.... something like "some people just don't get it". For some reason, that really struck a nerve with me... in a bad way. But it's a free country, and I really don't lose any sleep over not being part of the R Gruppe.

I live to autocross, club race and do track events... none of which the R Gruppe does much of?

[exc911ence]

OK, I made my bed and now I'm sleeping in it but here goes... I never meant anything negative towards Cris and the RGruppe, I'm sure it's all on the up-and-up. Cris himself asked me to join, and I thought that it would be fun to be part of a group of similar minded 911 enthusiasts, regardless that I'm several hundred miles to the North. I sent in a money order which is traceable, if need-be, but all I expected was an e-mail confirming that he had received the cheque and details/photos that I sent. Is that too much to ask? As for some of the RGruppe guys that I've met online, I'm sure (I hope!) that they don't speak for the rest of the Gruppe!

As for my "mildly" modified 912, it eats 911's alive on the track as many found out the hard way at Portland. Watch what you say about other's cars... you'd have better luck getting away with insulting a person's mother!

[911pcars]

"Worst of all, so few R Gruppe members have even made the attempt to put themselves in a better light in response to this criticism."

Lothar,
You assume so many of this exclusive society hover around here to respond. They don't. What better light should we aspire to? I am not responsible for anyone's actions except for myself. If I see an overwhelming number of *********s in this group, I will excuse myself. So far, I haven't seen too many examples of it. However, I did hear of one situation at the last German AutoFest where someone (member?) acted unacceptably. Poor reflection on R Gruppe? Possibly, as he drove in with a group. Poorer reflection on his upbringing - Probably. Don't ask. I don't know who it was nor the exact circumstances.

Sherwood