Message from Osama, ends all threads!

[dd74]

On the subject of population control, I know several newly-married couples who refuse to have their own children, but will instead adopt. It seems that if it is a movement, it is catching fire out west. I, for one, am for this thought, or at least I'm for a downsizing of the American family. I find it ridiculous and irresponsible for a couple to have five or six children, particularly in today's climate where resources are low and costs are high. I believe this idea that one needs so many children - other than based on a "love of kids" - comes from some long-ago notion that children are needed to work the farm or carry on the family business - which is honestly a less-likely scenario these days, though still, for some reason, this thought remains inherent in large portions of the American psyche.

To me, having so many kids hedges toward a Third World mentality. If at all, an increase in population can be a strong purveyor of a Third World scenario.

Mandatory birth control counciling may be the key here, and a nationwide push for adoption. But I won't hold my breath on that.

[singpilot]

More little soldiers for the coming brush wars?

[speeder]

People have children because they want to, period. For selfish reasons, not to "give love" but for themselves, IMO. That is why bored, poverty stricken people have a few extra, just for good measure. Or to give their lives "purpose".

I'm a major population control advocate, (if you hadn't guessed), and yes, I love children and people in general as much as the next person once they arrive here on earth. I just think that controlling one's population and environment should be one of the key things that separate us from say, garden snails. Does this make me an idealist?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by dd74
To me, having so many kids hedges toward a Third World mentality. If at all, an increase in population can be a strong purveyor of a Third World scenario.

In most cases, yes. For those of us with proven intelligence, however, it behooves us to have as many children as we can possibly support.

For no other reason than to keep the gene pool from getting so shallow that it dries up!

Unfortunately the people with any brains are the ones most concerned about "screwing up" when they raise kids, and stop after one or two (if they have any at all).

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
For proof, just go to any place in Africa with some lake and some nice land and take a full inventory of all the animal health, water quality and abundance of food and then take the same readings twenty years later.

Humans are not necessarily filthy but rather, stupid. We have all the resources to clean up our envirnoment, but choose not to. If all the possible wind power sites in our nation were built up/established we'd be able to provide three times the power our whole country needs. Not only that but wind (powered by the sun) will never go away and creates no pollution. How about this: Put solar panels on your home TODAY and you're electricity meter will run backwards. You'll be selling power back to utility companies. Making a difference, making money and setting an example.

The biggest problem is our idea of "waste". Waste for one thing, is food/life for something else, if not, it can be re-used/re-cycled. I.E. Cow shiet grows nice plants and cans can be recycled. In order to make a difference we need to get out of the idea of trash/waste and get with the idea of "the cycle". The days of linear production line manufacturing should be long forgotten and the idea of cycle processing should be adopted.

Ideally we setup solar panels on our homes and wind generators throughout the country. Great for the environment, sweet. But what's even cooler -- and somewhat back on topic -- is that we can say goodbye to the arabs sitting on thier oil fields.


Conclusion:

We have the technology for these utility alternatives, we're just too stupid to demand them....and it will never happen unless we demand them....supply demand. Why don't we demand them? Becasue of stupid comments like this:

"Actually, the reason I am for population control is because I feel that most environmentalist actions are quite often futile. Sort of like putting out building fires with a cup of water. Sure, you feel all warm and fuzzy at night knowing you did the right thing. But in the end, you haven't accomplished much. "

Weeeeeee! Off - topic forum rules!


EDIT: I'm strictly dealing with the idea of more people means ****y envirnoment.

[island911]

Originally posted by GrindingGears
. . .Conclusion:

We have the technology for these utility alternatives, we're just too stupid to demand them..... . .

Hmmm. We were smart enough to invent this technology. These alternatives do see some use. . . .
What you are missing is; these alternatives (currently) cost more money. (and I don't just mean investment money) When the cost/benifit changes, then we will be oh-so-smart, for having "demanded" them.

As to you anti-population crowd, all you guys need is a good war. (tic)

[island911]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
. .. .On a side note. How do people outside the US get their kids to school? I wonder because whenever I am in South America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand, I don't see many SUV's. I guess the kids don't go to school over there. Do they take them in station wagons or four door sedans? How uncivilized.

SO Ed, I hope you're sailing when you take those trips to South America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand . . .otherwise some home-bound, SUV-driving, soccer-mom may take issue with you.

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
Sorry Philip. While I agree, any means of environmentalist action without working in conjunction with some means of population control just does not do enough.

agreed.

[island911]

Ed -- Full time PT status, soon .. . sounds great.

You are lucky to be near having accumulated all the necessary resources for something like that.

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by island911
What you are missing is; these alternatives (currently) cost more money. (and I don't just mean investment money) When the cost/benifit changes, then we will be oh-so-smart, for having "demanded" them.

True, but not for long, so get over that response. Cost of solar tech is going down....

Year 1970 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995
Cost / Watt.hr $5.00 $2.50 $1.00 $0.50 $0.25 $0.25

Also, isn't our environment worth it?

Isn't our independence from the middle east worth it? Were still suckin on the teet of arab oil barrons in the year 2004!

Solar panels are expensive as hell, but there is something about not having to pay for electrity every month and being self sufficient that makes it seem worth it to me.

Originally posted by island911
As to you anti-population crowd, all you guys need is a good war. (tic)

lol, hell why not adopt the old school line 'em up and fire war tactic...circa 1700 and 1800s.

[island911]

Originally posted by GrindingGears
. . .Solar panels are expensive as hell, but there is something about not having to pay for electrity every month and being self sufficient that makes it seem worth it to me.
. . .

Hey, did you know that refrigerators are one of the biggest energy hogs in kitchens across America?

I say (for our refrigeration needs) we adopt that very low energy alternative, proven effective by the eskimos.

Read: Dude, I live in the Pacific Northwet. . . we don't get sun. Sell your panels to someone else.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Do any of you people b!tching about oil barons, enviornmental effects, etc. own Porsches? Or do you just come to the Pelican site to b!tch?

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by island911
Hey, did you know that refrigerators are one of the biggest energy hogs in kitchens across America?

I say (for our refrigeration needs) we adopt that very low energy alternative, proven effective by the eskimos.

Read: Dude, I live in the Pacific Northwet. . . we don't get sun. Sell your panels to someone else.

Yeah, i did RE: fridges... Did you know that if everyone in the U.S. bought a fridge with an ENERGY * (star) logo on it we could get rid of ten aging power plants?

PacNW? Dude, my old business school (Lundquist College of Business) at the Univ of Oregon just built a new building with photo-volteic (sp?) panels on the roof. It's pretty cool and I think the building is mostly self-sufficient. It's got some other cool shiet, moss on the roof, highly reflective paint in the classrooms (need less light), auto shut off switches, auto on switches.

FYI

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
Do any of you people b!tching about oil barons, enviornmental effects, etc. own Porsches? Or do you just come to the Pelican site to b!tch?

This is the off-topic forum man! I can ***** all I want. Is there a limit to how much I can post in this forum that I should know about?

Yes, not only do I own a Porsche but I own a Porsche from the best generation of 911s...I own an SC.

She has been running perfectly for the past four months so no need to ask any tech. questions. I'm installing a 28 row brass oil cooler soon, so I may actually need to ask some questions at that point, but not now.

[island911]

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
.. .
Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Ah geeze, Blue. . .I was really hoping to string this out a bit further before someone pointed to that elephant in the livingroom.


-read slowly--
When people say (write) about how society ought to "use less" and have "fewer users" (pop-cntl) . . .What I hear (read) is; "I wish more resorces were mine . . ..gimme gimme gimme"

The unappretiated reallity is, the number of problems being solved (think health & standard of living) is proportional to the number of people available to solve these problems.

Some people see population as competition, other see population as resorce. . . .some see a bit of both.

[singpilot]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
Pollution from cattle flatulence.

Now that's what I worry about!

Ed;

I also have the sailing away plan. I stay on my boat whenever I visit California.

I see you are in AZ. Where do you go to visit your boat?

I have bought a bigger boat, and have an Ericson 32 for sale with slip in Redondo; if a Pelicanite needs a boat, I'd make a helluva deal, and probably carry the note.

And yes, I park my Porsche at the marina.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

GG, island interpreted my comment the way I intended it.

Porsches guzzle gas, spew carcinogens and greenhouse gasses into the air at much higher rates than many other vehicles, are less efficient due to their smaller potential payload/passenger capacity, are inherently less safe, and encourage irresponsible driving.

That's what I like about 'em.

However, nobody can own one of these vehicles and complain about air quality, reliance on Saudi oil, or the gas-guzzling nature of SUVs and not be a hypocrite.

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
However, nobody can own one of these vehicles and complain about air quality, reliance on Saudi oil, or the gas-guzzling nature of SUVs and not be a hypocrite.

You're right, it really should be "all or nothing". I guess I am a hypocrite.

I'll stop recycling. I'll backdate my light bulbs to the regular kind, florescents, hah! what a trend. Oh and wait until next Christmas, I'm gonna light up the whole freggin' block. I think I'll set the central heating system in my house to run all day/night. I always wanted a fridge in the garage, I'm gonna go buy one just for beers, so I don't have to walk twenty feet to get one from the kitchen. Heck, maybe I can get a deal on a pair and put one in the basement. I'm calling my power company I don't want part of my bill to go to renewable power facility development. I'll also stop trying to educate those around me of the changes we can make to improve our environment, who really cares right? We'll be dead by the time it gets really $hity. There are some other things I'll need to alter, hopefully then I won't be a hypocrite. Thanks for coming in and straightening me out, all that stuff I was typing before was bolonga. Well, gotta go, I'm gonna go burn some leaves in my backyard.

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by singpilot
have an Ericson 32 for sale with slip in Redondo

Uuuuuuh ya dude!

Gimme some info, year, sleeps five right? Sink in the galley no doubt, but what about a shower? My dad and I have been talking about going in on a boat together, I'll talk with him tonight. What's the rate for a slip at King Harbour these days?

You should be out there right now, looks perfect.

[singpilot]

Taken 5 minutes ago on the Ericson off Manhattan Beach.

Yes, surfing the web and sailing at the same time. Sprint PCS wireless web.

Ed:

There is a Swan 38 2 slips down from me, it IS beautiful.