I won't disagree, but won't entirely agree with this. Rather's fiasco defines, IMO, leaning toward a preferred side. But certainly, not all press is edited to show a one-sided view. Even Fox hasn't shown positive footage of soldiers rebuilding infrastructure - at least not lately.

I say that because in the report I saw last night, one soldier who was interviewed said they were rebuilding a powerplant, cleaning streets, rebuilding schools, etc., but then were called off the rebuilding to supply "security."

Now, honestly, does that sound like a positive scenario? Called away from rebuilding a school to pick up a rifle and fight against an increase of insurgents? It doesn't tell me things are getting better.

Well, the problem is that the soldiers are not really there to build schools, clean streets, etc. Obviously the soldiers prefer that role, but they are only doing that in their spare time to help out. If they think otherwise...they are mistaken. The contractors are there to do the infrastructure tasks. When the big drawdowns came...we got out of the business of logistics and converted pretty much all our few remaining military slots to warfighting positions. The soldiers are really only there to provide security and kill people. Sometimes they are able to do more.
Pretty much everything Gomer Pyle used to do while waiting for a war to happen is now contracted out...janitor, cooking (no KP), raking leaves, building, shipping, driving trucks, etc. That is because it is typically cheaper to have a minimum wage guy do it than a soldier who must be trained, drug free, receive medical care, uniforms, retirement, GI Bill, etc

You don't see much of Iraq now by design. The terrorists cut off a few heads (no accident) and suddenly the only ones out taking video are the terrorist's cronies (who are sometimes killed by helicopters). The terrorists know they have allies in the media and democratic party that will use the lack of media access to the terrorists advantage in an effort to make the election do what they have not been able to. Defeat our soldiers.

They have learned the lessons of Vietnam better than our civilian populace.

So Fintstone, give us the true picture that the liberal media won't let us see. Is it in fact safe for civilian contractors to go about their rebuilding duties in Bagdhad these days? How about an Iraqi who wants to become a policeman, (or woman), is that a profession that you would recommend to one of the millions of unemployed people there?

Could you at least admit that the whole operation was horribly planned, a total crapshoot/gamble that rolled snake eyes, and that the real war began, (not ended), when your hero George Bush pranced around on the aircraft carrier w/ the "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him? :cool:

You lib's are being SUCKERS for not seeing that the "insurgence" are throwing a pre-election "hail-mary pass" . . .hoping that those linear extrapolators, voting in the US, will conclude "oh, it's all wrong -fret-fret-fret . .. anybody but Bush.

Now, if Kerry wanted to help-out in Iraq, he would start airing his speeches over there. Then the insurgence would see just how pointless their sacrifices are.

BTW, speeder, the aircraft carrier w/ the "Mission Accomplished" banner . .. was their Mission NOT Accomplished? Did they turn the ship right around, after GW left the deck? (to go back and complete their mission?)

Am i missing something here . . .or are you just falling into the Bush-bashing fallacies? (ala M Moore) :cool:

Holy Mother of Quacking Christ....Bill Moyer....a question....Exactly which side of the political spectrum does Bill Moyer fall in...Cinserative, Moderate or LIBERAL?

Now wouldn't one think that Moyers political leanings would just maybe colour his reporting a bit...you might even say his agenda is LIberal.


I have a sugestion for my earnest while correspondents...next time you watch something from the media figure out what their agenda is... then take what they say with a grain of salt....cause you know they are spinning the facts to match their ideology.

If you think the media is there to supply you with the unvarnished facts guess again....

This war was all wrong, fret-fret-fret, BEFORE it started, when they were lying about the reasons for having it. It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to see that it's an unmitigated disaster, but let's call a spade a spade. Do you think that the evil, left-wing media should ignore the incredible, (and growing), levels of violence and instability in Iraq? Maybe just carefully train their cameras on some contractor or soldiers who don't get killed or dismembered on each particular day?? :rolleyes:

It's getting harder and harder to understand the Bush supporter's POV on Iraq, (and frankly it was never easy for me), are things going well over there? Are most of the Iraqis glad that we are occupying their country, but once again the evil media won't show them? Why isn't FOX NEWS over there interviewing them everyday, they're the top-rated cable news outlet after all.

The truth is as plain as the nose on your face: The invasion and occupation of Iraq was and is the worst blunder by the most incompetent administration in the history of the U.S. Had these half-witted, asshat wearing crooks been in power at any other time in history, we would be A) whistling dixie, B) speaking German, C) still in the great depression, etc..... :cool:

Obviously it is not safe to do anything that is "good" there now. The terrorists have been alerted that they can change the course of our nation and theirs if they can make the cost too high and it can be exaggerated by liberals and a collaborating media. they expect Kerry to be able to repeat history and cause us take our second war defeat in history....as he did in Vietnam.

People fighting Islamic militants as well as innocent civilians are being killed daily..all over the world...not just in Iraq. Yes, I would certainly recommend that anyone in Iraq be a patriot and take a job defending their country from these terrorists...after all...freedom is not free.

I think that the actual war was brilliantly planned and executed.

The peace afterward was not so well done, but how could one expect it to be? It is the first time in history that an enemy was so rapidly and soundly defeated that the infrastructure just disappeared. The country was already in shambles under Saddam and there was no one left alive that could remember freedom or make a simple decision without Saddam. Then just when things were going fairly well...the election coverage and the Democratic "another Vietnam" analogies started. This encouraged the terrorists enough that Sadr was actually quoting Ted Kennedy to his followers.

As far as the "mission accomplished" bit...We know now that our european weasel "allies" had made a deal with Colin Powell to join us in Iraq as soon as the President would announce that to the world so they would have political cover. That is why the statement was made. And as we know, the weasels welshed on their promise. IMHO, that was the biggest mistake Bush made...trusting known weasels.

Interesting. I hadn't heard this. Evidence?

My guess is that while they attempt to present both sides, they would like to keep their well paid asses from being shot off.
I did hear a couple of very articulate young GIs call into a conservative talk radio show the other day and express a great deal of optimism. They said noone would let them speak on regular network radio/tv because their stories were positive and the producers only wanted negativite tales about Iraq....as they say, if it bleeds.....it leads!

Only Powell's word.

"With all due respect to the president, has he turned on the evening news lately? Does he read the newspapers?" Kerry said. "Does he really know what's happening? Is he talking about the same war that the rest of us are talking about?"

This is a quote from Kerry's recent speech....amazing that a Senator on the intelligence committee of a nation with the largest intelligence apparatus in the world, would get his take on the war from the evening news (with Dan Rather I'll bet)...and expect the President to do the same.

One quote: "...they will throw flowers to the soldiers as liberators." (sic)

One observation: over 1,000 liberators are dead.

Come to your own conclusions.

You and your right wing cronies are living on pink pufter cloud..... "The actual war"... :confused:

The actual war began after the fall of Saddam's pathetic army, just as the opposition had planned it. The "actual war" is just getting warmed up, my brilliant friend. You need to stop parroting GOP slogans, and read a paper or two yourself. We do have a free press in this country, I'll have you know, and we are also allowed to read the press of any other country that we so desire. Senator Kerry was doubtless making a sarcastic reference to Bush's pride in his own illiteracy, (never reads anything, etc..), this is what happens when a C- student gets to be President through some really strange electoral circumstances. He gets his ass, and his talking points, handed to him every day by people who are secretly snickering at his being "reference challenged" as soon as he leaves the room.

I would expect more from you, try independant thinking for a change and read more, for God's sakes! Any half-assed history student would stop Bush three sentences into any of his speeches if they could, these people have to be laughing at their supporters. They just have to be, I mean really, they just keep repeating the same slogans, pretending that they never said what they said before the war, etc....

It would be laughable if so many damn people weren't dying. :(

I'd like to know what planet U Quackers are from.....

First Fred Flinstone...when was Irwreck EVER FREE????

2nd... "The real war started just as the oposition had planned it" Speeder LOL which oposition was that?

There was no oposition in the dam...ed place...What you had/have is chaos and out of chaos you have these groups forming...some are foreign Jihadists, some are Sunnis, some maybe hold overs from Sadam and you have Sh1ets....all are vying for power and all really don't like Americans or anybody else for that matter in their country. even these different groups don't like each other...so how are you going to put together a country with any kind of stability....when ther NEVER was any.

U all think that after 30 years of Strong Man rule, who eliminated any and all oposition to his rule that there is going to be an easy transition to a stabile situation...Now thats the mistake Bushy made was in thinking that...he should have been thinking more like Somilia...total chaos...

I think Speeder and the rest of the Quackers have watched too much prime time TV..where everything gets solved in 30 minutes...

The 'insurgents' (aka any Iraq who doesn't lay down to have his belly scratched) don't give a flying fark about the elections; they want the American invaders gone. Why can't the Flintstone's and Mule's of this world understand that? It's no different than if there were Arab troops patrolling downtown Houston or Arab tanks rolling through Kansas City; the locals would be doing everything they could to show them a bad time.

Assuming you are referring to me...Iraq..and most nations have never been truly free; but in the '40s they certainly had a relatively progressive society with repect to the times and location. Women were in education, government, had businesses, etc.

In fact, many did at first....they were killed by terrorists. Anyone showing the least bit of sympathy for the US is immediately murdered...why would you expect them to be brave enough to risk such a symbolic tribute now?

Clearly you are wrong. You imply that if we just left, they would stop killing. That is the same logic Kerry used in Vietnam that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. They will only stop killing when the last person in that country that does not support them is dead. Then they will visit neighboring countries.