Terrorism-and the solution is?......

[SLO-BOB]

This is a test............

[A Quiet Boom]

I believe as does the President that centuries of oppression and an almost total lack of freedom breeds radicals with nothing to lose. Liberty is a very reasonable solution because it breaks that particular incentive. I am not naive however and I think the incentive to attack us goes farther than that. We've had a long history of christians battling muslims and I believe many muslims see terrorism as merely a continuation of that battle. The key here is for us to SUPPORT moderate muslims and give them to freedom to practice their religeon, no matter what it may be. The muslim world has many factions that try to oppress one another, Saddam and the Sunni's oppressing the Kurds and Shiites is only one example. The war on terror will last at least our lifetime IMO because it is a war of ideology. Normally that wouldn't be a wise war to fight but when the other side wants to destroy us at any cost we must fight it. If Iraq can become a nation of free and tolerant people, I believe the entire muslim world will benefit. Freedom of religion is one of the most important rights we have in this country, separation of church and state is a very important practice. The US was formed by religeous people being persecuted in Europe and our constitution reflects our desire to keep religion out of politics because after all it is a personal issue. We fought for our freedom from the British and became a great nation. It is not only in our best interest, it is also a duty for the US to at least attempt to give people in other countries the same freedoms we enjoy, especially when they are not strong enough to free themselves. Now that Afghanistan is free and has held elections it democracy will grow and the people will decide the role they want govenment to play in theree lives. At some point the Afghans and eventually the Iraqis will totally reject terror because it will threaten the very freedom they have come to enjoy. The Afghan's already have learned this and the Iraqis' have not. To them we are occupiers and to a large degree they are right but they must be constantly and openly reminded that we will leave once they can protect there country and their new government. Once they understand this basic fact they will rise up and put down the terrorists who threaten the very freedom they are just starting to enjoy.

In the modern era many in the ME see the west as meddlers and to some degree they are right, but they need to know that our reasons for being there will benefit them more in the long run than they can ever imagine. It takes time to get people to understand something they have never known in their lives and the US and our allies need to be steadfast and optimistic. They need to realize the possiblities facing them.

[island911]

As I've said before, terrorism is very much like the high-seas piracy of the past.(HUGE problem; Barbery and Muslim pirates from the coast of North Africa.)
Sure it still exists today, but to a very minimal degree. The reason that it minimally exists today came from a very hard stance against, and tough fight against it.

So, is that a "win" ?

[Aurel]

90% of the hatred that the arab world has against the USA finds its origin in the support of Israel, and the perceived injustice that was done to the palestinians when the state of Israel was created. If the USA really wanted to solve the terrorism problem and give freedom to opressed people, resolving this conflict is the place to start. I can`t really understand why Bush totally dropped the ball on that one, and it seems to me that Clinton was making more progress in that direction.

Aurel

[stomachmonkey]

Uhm, stop terrorism?

Sorry, not gonna happen.

What I get from this thread is that terrorism is derived primarily from peoples of middle eastern descent or Islamic religion.

Sept 11 is the most horrific act of terrorism ever commited anywhere, period, no question. And it needed to be dealt with in the strongest manner possible, no question, we all agree.

And while middle easterners probably pose the single greatest threat right now let us not forget that other threats have, still do and will always exist. Some of them might even be your blue eyed christian neighbor.

Don't forget that before 9/11 the worst act of terrorism in the US was Oklahoma City.

1950
Assasination attempt on President Truman. Puerto Rican nationalists kill one District of Columbia policeman during an attempted assasination of President Harry S. Truman outside of Blair House in Washington, D.C.

1954
Shooting in the U.S. House of Representatives. Five members of Congress are wounded by gunfire during an attack by Puerto Rican nationalists on the U.S. House of Representatives.

1972
Fraunces Tavern Bombing. Four people die in this bombing at a historic tavern in downtown New York City. The Puerto Rican nationalist group FALN is blamed for the attack, one of 49 bombings in New York attributed to them between 1974 and 1977.

1975
LaGuardia Airport Bombing. Eleven are killed, 75 are injured, in this attack by Croation nationalists at this New York City airport.

1976
Letelier Assassination. Orlando Letelier, the former Chilean ambassador to the United States, is killed by a car bomb in Washington, D.C. The bomb, planted by Chile's Pinochet government, also kills one of Letelier's associates while injuring another.

1981
Kennedy Airport Bombing. One man is killed when a bomb planted by a group calling itself the Puerto Rican Armed Resistance goes off in a men's bathroom at New York City's international ariport.

1983
U.S. Senate Bombing. A bomb goes off in the cloak room next to the U.S. Senate in the Capitol Building. Two left-wing radicals plead guilty to the attack.

1993
World Trade Center Bombing. Six people are killed, and over 1,000 are injured, in this attack by Islamic radicals on New York's 110-story twin towers. Eventually, four men are convicted in the case.

1995
Oklahoma City Bombing. One hundred and sixty-nine die after a truck bomb is detonated across the street from the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City. Two men, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, are indicted for the crime; both are affilitated with right-wing militia movements.

1996
The Olympic Bombing. During the Summer Olympic Games, less than two weeks after the TWA Flight 800 disaster, a pipe bomb exploded at Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta, Georgia, killing two people and injuring more than one hundred others. The FBI said that the pipe bomb looked "homemade" with "nails and screws attached." They suspected domestic terrorists, and members of local militia groups were questioned without any results.

Identifying the Unabomber: A Possible Breakthrough. In April 1996, federal agents arrested Theodore Kaczynski and charged him with the crimes committed by the so-called "Unabomber." The Unabomber, who targeted university scientists and airline employees among others, had evaded authorities for over 18 years. According to the FBI, the suspect had killed three people and injured 23 others with package bombs. In a 35,000-word manifesto, which was published in The Washington Post and The New York Times at his insistence, the Unabomber stated that he believed that technological advances have dehumanized society. That is why scientists and researchers, at the forefront of the technological revolution, were targets for his anger.

Not to mention the regular acts of terrorism conducted by radical anti abortion groups, ELF, White Supremicists etc....

It's going to get uglier before it gets better.

I hope to god I'm wrong.

Scott

[Mule]

Aurel said:
"90% of the hatred that the arab world has against the USA finds its origin in the support of Israel,"

This sounds logical but is dead wrong. In the wisdom of mohammed the world is divided into 2 places, dar al islam (house of submission) & dar al harb (house of war). Now the war referred to is not infidels killing infidels. What is referred to by the prophet of peace is muslims killing infidels in order to expand dar al islam. This religion is like Amway on LSD mixed with the manson family & jim jones' crew. Their point is "convert or die." Attempts to blame their actions on others is nonsense. I hate to break it to you touchy feely types but the only way to deal with this is to kill them till they stop lining up against us & the sooner the better.

There are some religious beliefs that are just incompatible with civilized existence & this is one. The Nostics have been wiped out a few times. Their teachins said that hard & fast rules were meaningless & each person's rules were different, i.e if I kill you, maybe you needed killing. Needless to say they didn't make a lot of friends. The bad news is that in our age of political correctness, we cant call a spade a spade. So we try to equate islam to religions whose goals are to influence people to behave in a reasonable manner . When in truth, their goals are to conquer the world in the name of big al.

[island911]

Damn, mule; ya hit that one right out of the park.

"So we try to equate islam to religions whose goals are to influence people to behave in a reasonable manner . "

[mtelliott]

Mule.

Help me out on this one. Are you saying that we need to eliminate all Islamic religion?

Michael

[Mule]

I'm saying we need to call a spade a spade & quit trying to act like these people are something other than what they are. Tell them we know what their game is. Tell them that it is our intention that they fail. Tell them that we will use any amount of force to that end & stand behind what we say. If they move away from their cause then fine. If they are intent on dieing for allah, 72 virgins dating service, at your disposal.

[island911]

Originally posted by mtelliott
Mule.

Help me out on this one. Are you saying that we need to eliminate all Islamic religion?

Michael

When does a "religion" become a cult ?

That's the question.

If the arian nation decided to change its name to "the arian religion" would cross burnings become 'just exersizing our religious beliefs'

Would we then be okay with lynchings "by just a few bad apples in the group/religion" . . .as long as; the rest, they just stood by and watched . . .and cheered . .. but they don't condon lynchings. No, the Arian Religion is a religion of peace.


We are such SUCKERS here . . . "religion" always gets a pass.

[Superman]

Okay, let's call it a "cult."

Then, the question becomes: "Help me out on this one. Are you saying that we need to eliminate all Islamic cult?"

[Superman]

Okay, let's call it a "cult."

Then, the question becomes: "Help me out on this one. Are you saying that we need to eliminate all Islamic cult (a.k.a., "religion")?"

Perhaps the answer was embedded in the response, which was another question. So, perhaps Island can support eliminating the "cult" portion of the "religion." Or maybe the entire "religion" is a "cult" and should be eliminated.

But at any rate, rather than an answer there was a clarifying question posed. So, that being answered, it becomes time for either a new clarifying question or.....an answer.

[island911]

implied-- We need to STOP giving heinous actions (and in-actions) a 'pass' just because they are wrapped-up in a "religion."

If a religion is just a cover for a cult, we need to recognise that .

We leave alone terrorist who hold-up in temples -- while we pussyfoot around. . . afraid of "religious implications"

I say we start letting some folks know, that if they want to hold-on to their "religion of peace" they had better start cleaning out their temples of terrorists; so to speak.

[Mule]

Super said:
""Help me out on this one. Are you saying that we need to eliminate all Islamic cult (a.k.a., "religion")?"

Perhaps the answer was embedded in the response, which was another question. So, perhaps Island can support eliminating the "cult" portion of the "religion." Or maybe the entire "religion" is a "cult" and should be eliminated. "

Go back & read my first post in this thread.

[RoninLB]

fwiw. the group that the person identifies with determines behavior. It's not the persons personality. It's easy to manipulate people thru group dynamics with an obligation to a group.

[SLO-BOB]

This is a test............

[CamB]

The mere existence of peaceful Muslim countries makes a fallacy out of any argument that Islam is the root of the problem.

I'd be more inclined to pick opposition to the support of Israel than blame Islam.

You guys also need to face the fact that if you believe that Islam is the problem, and you state that, you are persecuting Muslims and should eventually expect them to fight like cornered rats. If Islam is the problem, you cannot force conversion on them any more than you would accept what you believe is the forced conversion of you by them.

Honestly, start again on how to fix the problem - blaming Islam is going to get you nowhere.

[Bill Verburg]

I think Mule is largly correct, compounded by the fact that the majority of their schooling is controlled by radicals, they are not tought mathematics but rather hatred, as a result large segments of their population are eductated to be suicide tools not engineers.

[Aurel]

Sebring77,

Your plan, that I would qualify as isolationism, is unrealistic for one very simple reason: The US can`t leave the middle east alone, because its economy needs their oil. And the dollar is only a strong currency because of that. Leave the arabs alone, and they will start selling their oil in euros, yens, and that will wipe out the dollar. The dollar having no more value, no bank will loan any more money to the US governement. How much is the deficit again ? $440 Bn if I recall correctly...without banks loaning money to bail out the dollar, the entire economy, which is literally a house of cards relying on cheap oil, would collapse. This is why leaving the middle east alone is not feasible. Further, the war on terror is almost...a happy coincidence !

Aurel

[SLO-BOB]

This is a test............