Debate

[Hugh R]

They both suck. Bush is ultraconservative and Kerry is ultraliberal. How many of you are at the extreme left or right. I'll bet most of you are kind of in the middle.

[CamB]

I'm apparently at the extreme left - I'm left of Kerry.

But I'm right of my government. Which is presiding (for its 3rd term) over a strong economy.

I'm so confused

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Hugh R
They both suck. Bush is ultraconservative and Kerry is ultraliberal. How many of you are at the extreme left or right. I'll bet most of you are kind of in the middle.

We can agree that they both suck.

Bush is a "conservative" who has spent $900,000,000 more than he's taken in in his administration and presided over what must be the biggest expansion of the Federal government, ever. He wants to legislate personal behavior and sacrifice national parks. I don't consider any of those things 'conservative.'

Conservative used to mean conservationist, small government, pay-as-you-go and pro-self determination.

[Bleyseng]

Now Conservative means prayer in the schools, cutting school budgets, low taxes for the rich, corporate give a ways, spend, spend and spend...

[A Quiet Boom]

My point about Cheney's daughter is that she supports her father as is her right. Ron Reagan, President Reagan's son was against his father on many issues and was public about it. Ms. Cheney while public about her support for her father and publically gay has left the gay marriage issue out of the public forum. I am for civil unions, I feel this way for two reasons. First I believe marriage is between a man and a woman only. Second, based on what my gay friends have told me, they are also pro civil union and do not feel gay marriage is necessary as long as those civil unions provide all the benefits of marriage. The rightly point out that one could be civilily joined by law and married by faith. Marriage has it's roots in faith and should remain that way. Bush feels an amendment is necessary because activist judges have tried to attack marriage in recent years. Neither candidate is for gay marriage BTW. Kerry just feels we don't need to protect marriage either through an amendment which he opposes or the defense of marriage act which he voted against. The whole amendment issue brings to light a different and larger problem facing this country. Activist judges are legislating from the bench which is unconstitutional, we have the senate and congress to make the laws. The courts are supposed to strcitly interprete the laws.

On the point about mistakes, it is political death to admit mistakes during an election, nearly every politician who has done it has lost. I believe Bush knows the mistakes he's made and will come forward eventually about them. What is important to look at is how he's dealt with those mistakes. In some cases he has fixed them and others he needs to address or need further work. Admiting mistakes in Iraq however might be viewed as a strategic mistake because it might hurt the relationship with our Iraqi allies. A leader needs to be positive in a time of war to "rally the troops". I don't believe the coalition Bush and Blair put together was a mistake, especially given the information we have seen lately about France and Russia in the oil for food scandal, it is clear they would never have backed us and they've even said they won't back Kerry. The coalitions that went with us into Afghanistan and Iraq will benefit the most in the long run because the people of those nations will not forget who helped them win their freedom. We did not forget France's help during our Revolutionary War and returned the favor by liberating them in WW2. The corrupt french government seems to have forgotten who it's strongest friend was and that is a shame.

[phishhead]

Yes, the EXACT same tie, I noticed that too. Seems they can agree on something.

[campbellcj]

I concede that Kerry is a masterdebater. Few would argue that GWB is a skilled communicator. Even fewer would also argue against the statement that both are professionally trained and experienced bullsh!^ters.

But that doesn't change the facts. Granted, both candidates scare me and are "sub-optimal" IMHO; however, at this point Kerry is far more scary. I suppose I was a potential swing voter and he cinched my (non) vote tonite.

[UconnTim97]

Originally posted by phishhead
Yes, the EXACT same tie, I noticed that too. Seems they can agree on something.

Glad I am not the only one who noticed that...score one for HDTV there...lol

[island911]

Obviously Kerry spends a lot of his time self-reflecting and mentally masterdebating himself.

I mean the guy is up on an issue, then down on an issue .. . .up, down, up down. . ...

And he even does this in Puplic ! " I voted for the 87billion . . before I voted against it"

and worse; he thinks that people like to be around to see that? eck .. . repulsive.

Kerry said.....lesbian. America loves a good lesbian.

Has anyone seen my carpet?

[john walker's workshop]

does it match the drapes?

[MichiganMat]

It really tied the room together!

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Bleyseng
Now Conservative means prayer in the schools,

Only after studing to pass the SOL test.

Funny that SOL abbreviation, has several meanings.

No child left behind indeed, the world still needs ditch diggers.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by campbellcj
I concede that Kerry is a masterdebater.

He'd have to be. Have you see Therea Heinz-Kerry? Makes Hillary look like one of the grid girls.

OK, I'll shut up now.

[fintstone]

Yep..Slate uses the Kerry formula...tell a lie often enough....it becomes true.

[Rot 911]

"integrity, integrity, integrity"

What kind of mother did Kerry have? On her death bed no "I love you"? No "You've been a good son"?

"integrity, integrity, integrity"?

Is there a reason she was concerned with that?

[CRH911S]

um, let's see. GWB used his daddy's connections to avoid the draft and ended up with a very unusual mos-campaign worker. Sounds like solid credentials needed to lead troops and our nation. JFK has a plan an I know it doesn't included runing in the opposite direction like GWB. Vote John Kerry!

[island911]

Ha. Kurt, that is exactly what I was thinking.

"Johnny, integrity, integrity, integrity . .. you've got to work on that, boy.

"Okay, mom. I'll trrrryyyyy.

"ya know, mah, if it makes you feel better, I'll let you know that I've called in favors . .. .and guess what? . .. my military record NOW say "honorable Discharge". How's that for building my integrity!?

[mikester]

Alright - I just don't understand the hub-bub about this whole marriage issue and the more *I* think about it the more I think that all marriages should be defined by the government as "Civil Unions."

My basis for this is that marriage has it's roots in religion and not government. Next we have what is commonly known as a separation of church and state. So why is it that our government recognizes and gives benefits to support a religious ceremonial status?

All marriages in the eyes of the government should be defined as civil unions. Take the word marriage out of law and let the church do with it as it pleases - in the end it's just a word and the a couple of gays want to say they are married and want to have the rights afforded that marriage or union then I honestly don't f'ing give a damn. I'll stay out of your bedroom if you stay out of mine.

*Disclaimer* It's early and I'm tired and this might possibly be the stupidest group of words I've ever put together. But I still don't think it's worth all the effort.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Originally posted by MichiganMat
It really tied the room together!

I am going as 'the dude' for the Hallo's Eve Festivities this year.

The Big Labowski is one of my favorite movies.

Oh yea - it would be hard to call Bush an ultra-conservative by the classic definition. I would have to say more to the middle than to the right.