Time to Mend Fences...

[CamB]

Point taken on Michael Moore .... but then again look at the Swift Boat Vets.

Originally posted by island911
I'm not claiming that the conservatives were without demonizing Kerry. Simply that Kerry most entirely relied on the popularity of Bush Bashing.

The same exit polls suggested that the Kerry voters were most concerned about the economy and jobs. That's not the voting habits of "Anybody but Bush" (whereas IMHO, voting for Bush against Kerry for moral reasons is "Anybody but Kerry").

[island911]

Cam, the swifties got little traction here in the states. Obviously lots of traction here on this board.

Anyway, I have some of those Subaru-driving, Lance Armstrong bracelet-wearing friends here in the grunge of Seattle. (Kerry Voters) I was surpisised at how many NEVER heard of these swifties.

M Moore, otoh, EVERYBODY knows.

What I saw showing, was the sport of bashing Bush as the low-brow, bungling rural Texan, in the light of high-brow, windsurfing, limo-liberal, titanium cycle-riding, hair-styled, urbanite.

Maybe someone found out Kerry plucks his brow to get it up there.

[Overpaid Slacker]

Cam, be careful invoking exit polls; they were obviously seriously flawed, enough so that it looks fraudulent. Just my $.02

Also - there is a very important distinction between basing statements on fact, as SBV have done (and their own personal opinions, grounded in fact) and as anyone who has referred to Kerry as a Liberal has done (he is by most accounts, including Liberal accounts, the most Liberal US Senator). I mean, the guy IS the consummate Liberal; how is calling him that demonizing? He earned the rep. in decades in the US Senate ... that he strangely didn't want to talk about.

He referred to the good old days when terrorism was a "nuisance" and wanted to get us back to those pre-9/11 halcyon days of staggering ignorance on our part to the danger around us. He said he wanted to handle terrorism like a law enforcement matter.

Is it not a reasonable conclusion to say he's pretty soft on terrorism? I mean, hey maybe that's a position you want in your politician; fine. But it's not demonizing him to set forth his own express opinions and reasonable deductions therefrom.

If you equate that with statements from ranking Democrats (not the loony Bush=Hitler schmucks):
"43rd Reich"
W's admin is the Taliban
Bush is a Liar
and the embrace of the despicable Michael Moore and his lies ..

I mean if you truly equate those things, I have no faith in your judgment.

JP

[ubiquity0]

Personally I think it’s a pretty soft position to believe that “[OBL is] not a priority. I’m not concerned by him.” YMMV

The Republican smearmachine was very effective in getting even intelligent ABK people to turn Kerry’s promise to “hunt down & kill OBL” into “he wants to negotiate with OBL” .

[red-beard]

Buffalo local news is reporting vandalism of the GOP headquarters and photocopied posters encouraging Democrats to show their outrage with more vandalism.

Anyone remember the keyboards?

[juanbenae]

the keyboards? you mean that 80's band?

[jyl]

Originally posted by island911
Cam, the swifties got little traction here in the states. Obviously lots of traction here on this board.

Anyway, I have some of those Subaru-driving, Lance Armstrong bracelet-wearing friends here in the grunge of Seattle. (Kerry Voters) I was surpisised at how many NEVER heard of these swifties.

"Got little traction" - you must be joking. Google "Swift Boat" and you'll get >700,000 hits. Google "Swift Boats" within the "news" category and you'll get over 2,000 news stories on the group. The group and its claims got a lot of attention.

If your Kerry voter friends are very liberal (I assume that what you are if you drive a Subaru and wear a Lance Armstrong bracelet), of course they wouldn't have paid attention to the Swift Boat Vets.

But this election was won by firing up and turning out the hard-core of the Republican base, and the core base most certainly did hear about and pay attention to the Swift Boat group. I got plenty of those emails from my Republican friends and relatives.

[CamB]

It doesn't matter - its all over and done now.

I guess to get back to the point of this thread - mending fences - I'd suggest that you're not going to get much more than patched up fences and little tolerance from liberals for errors in any move Bush makes.

It is silly to think that those who didn't vote to give the Bush dynasty a chance to really make its mark are now going to roll over and be grateful for Bush for (in their opinion) screwing everything up.

In short - I'd expect plenty of criticism (from your own countrymen - I think it is a given that the ROW is going to do it).

[350HP930]

Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker
Cam, be careful invoking exit polls; they were obviously seriously flawed, enough so that it looks fraudulent. Just my $.02

Or perhaps the actual vote count was fraudulent.

With all the new electronic voting machines in use this year and their lack of security and accounting back ups we truely live in an era where the electronic ballot boxes could be stuffed and altered to the tune of millions of votes in a national election.

My $0.02 is that much of the nation's electronic vote system is ripe for fraud and the very strange exit poll numbers may just point to the reason for bush's "win".

http://www.blackboxvoting.com

[cegerer]

Oh boy, another conspiracy. The Republicans rigged the voting machines.

[island911]

Originally posted by jyl
.. .
If your Kerry voter friends are very liberal . . . of course they wouldn't have paid attention to the Swift Boat Vets.
. . .

More elitism there.
Understand, there are a whole lot of people who are quick to dismiss anything (swifties) or anyone (GW) who doesn't fit their image. They don't get deep into the issues.

They are "liberals" only in that they see liberalism as being secular and progressive. They are quick to point to a Texan and yell "Dumb Hick" (checked only by their deeply engrained political correctness)

The Kerry kamp went after these elitists, with a windsurfing, et al elitist of their own. They all got together to buoy their superiority in a giant circle-jerk . . .. and got there ASS (or is it a donkey?) KICKED by a bunch of country folk.

If there is to be any "coming together" the lib's are going to have to grow-up some, and realize not everyone lives for the rat-race. . . .that a whole lot of very sharp people choose a life in rual America.

[jyl]

Well, some people who are very liberal might have disregarded the SBV because they are closed-minded, as you describe. Others might have disregarded the SBV because they placed priority on other issues, such as current events. And others might have disregarded the SBV because they considered the group not credible.

I don't know what group your liberal friends fall into. But assuming that a person is closed-minded simply because they were not swayed by the Swift Boats attacks is not very sensible.

[island911]

Originally posted by jyl
.... assuming that a person is closed-minded simply because they were not swayed by the Swift Boats attacks is not very sensible.

What I said was, they had never heard of the swifties . . . nothing about being swayed.

. . they never even got so far to make an assesment as to the swifties crediblity, or priority wrt other events. They simply have a eh, whatever attitude.

Now if "Queer-Eye for the Straight Guy' crew had something to say about Kerrys tan, or eyebrow plucking, they may perk-up and listen.

[dd74]

Originally posted by CamB
I guess to get back to the point of this thread - mending fences - I'd suggest that you're not going to get much more than patched up fences and little tolerance from liberals for errors in any move Bush makes.

It is silly to think that those who didn't vote to give the Bush dynasty a chance to really make its mark are now going to roll over and be grateful for Bush for (in their opinion) screwing everything up.

In short - I'd expect plenty of criticism (from your own countrymen - I think it is a given that the ROW is going to do it).

1) Well, I'm not quite sure what a liberal is more than what I know of those here in L.A., which are those with "anybody but Bush" attitudes. To them, the suggestion of "grow up" goes without saying. The option is no longer even there to put in anyone but Bush. If not repaired soon, for the party, the monniker might be "Anybody but a Democrat."

2) No one who is worth their political salt is going to roll over. That definitely would be party genocide.

3) I'm starting to wonder if the ROW doesn't have another viewpoint as of Nov. 2nd. And that might be for better or worse, there's truly nothing they can do about Bush being reelected. Hence, grin and bear it...